Menudo: The Rise and Fall of the First International Boy Band
Menudo was arguably the first international boy band and one of the most successful. Starting from humble roots in 1970s Puerto Rico, the group conquered the pop world in the 1980s and 1990s.
As the boys grew older and their voices started changing, they soon discovered that they were easily replaceable – by a steady stream of 12- to 15-year olds waiting in the wings, ready to chase their dreams of stardom.
Such success came with an unnecessary price. As revealed by former members, the boys were often overworked, neglected, emotionally and physically abused. Separated from their parents, they also became easy targets for sexual predators.
Menudo: Forever Young (2022), HBO Max’s four-part docuseries, brings to life the uplifting, as well as tragic story of Menudo. Award-winning filmmakers Angel Manuel Soto and Kristofer Ríos co-directed the docuseries. Rios, who is also co-executive producer, joins us to discuss the allegations made in the film, and how the band still has a fond place in the hearts of millions.
"What we were attempting to do is celebrate Menudo, but also have everyone understand the cost the band members paid to be in the band.” - Kristofer Ríos
Time Stamps:
00:00 - The trailer for Menudo: Forever Young.
04:40 - Where you can watch the docuseries.
05:20 - How the fans of Menudo have reacted the documentary.
07:48 - The historical significance of Menudo.
15:25 - The importance of the band singing in Spanish.
18:24 - The conditions the band members had to work in.
22:22 - The physical and mental abuse the boys were put through.
25:25 - The issue of the band members being sexualised.
30:05 - How Kristofer got involved in the making of Menudo: Forever Young.
36:25 - The challenges of interviewing former members of the band.
41:43 - What it was like meeting the ex-members of Menudo.
43:45 - What we can take away from this documentary.
Resources:
Menudo: Forever Young (2022)
Fusion Media Group
MovieMaker Magazine
Innersound Audio
Alamo Pictures
Connect with Kristofer Ríos:
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Transcript for Factual America Episode 106: Menudo- Forever Young
Kristofer Rios 00:00
Yeah, so, I'm Kristofer Rios, and I am one of the directors and co-executive producers of Menudo: Forever Young, and I'm also a journalist of well over a decade, now.
Speaker 1 00:16
Let's have a real big welcome for...
Speaker 2 00:18
Menudo!
Speaker 3 00:26
Manager...
Speaker 4 00:26
Edgardo Diaz.
Speaker 5 00:27
... adopted a fountain of youth strategy. The individual members are simply replaced once they reach the age of 16.
Speaker 6 00:34
(Spanish:) You keep rotating members. And that way you can maintain Menudo forever.
Speaker 7 00:38
They were the first boy band because the formula wasn't already there. They had these massive pop hits that were internationally popular. That is something that Menudo taught us boy bands could do.
Speaker 8 00:48
It's called "Menuditis".
Speaker 9 00:51
(Speaker:) We had an entire avenue paralyzed, in New York City.
Speaker 10 00:55
The Puerto Rican community was invisible to English language media.
Speaker 11 01:00
(Spanish:) And suddenly five Puerto Rican boys arrive breaking all those stereotypes, singing in Spanish.
Speaker 12 01:00
And you're like, Oh my God, these kids are like me. Such a sense of pride. And that was just so frickin magical.
Speaker 13 01:14
There were a lot of good things that came out of Menudo, but there was a price to pay for that magic. None of us were really prepared for what it was really going to be like. There was no interest in protecting us. We felt vulnerable.
Speaker 14 01:24
I remember being in Brazil and finding myself in a room of these older men, asking me if I'm already liking sex.
Speaker 15 01:33
What was Customs doing with you?
Speaker 16 01:34
How many drugs?
Speaker 17 01:35
But we never do nothing.
Speaker 18 01:37
I started throwing up blood. I could have died. If it was gonna cost me my life, I'd rather not be famous and live.
Speaker 19 01:45
Menudo was a beautiful thing that came out of a not-so-beautiful situation.
Speaker 20 01:53
Sex, drugs, and rock and roll, that's what it was.
Speaker 21 01:55
Menudo opened up the possibility that this is something we can aspire to.
Speaker 22 02:00
(Spanish:) The history of Menudo...
Speaker 23 02:00
... will live on forever.
Matthew 02:12
This is Factual America. We're brought to you by Alamo Pictures, an Austin and London based production company making documentaries about America for international audiences. I'm your host, Matthew Sherwood. Each week, I watch a hit documentary and then talk with the filmmakers and their subjects. This week, it is my pleasure to welcome award winning filmmaker Kristofer Rios, director and producer of the HBO Max docu-series, Menudo: Forever Young. The film brings to life the uplifting as well as tragic story of Menudo, arguably the first international boy band, and one of the most successful. Starting from humble roots in 1970s Puerto Rico, the group conquered the pop world in the 1980s and 90s, taking their brand of Latin pop worldwide. But as the boys grew older and their voices started changing, they discovered that they were easily replaceable, with a steady stream of 12 to 15 year olds in the wings ready to chase their dreams of stardom. Such success came with an unnecessary price, however. As revealed by former members. The boys, separated from their parents, were often overworked, neglected, emotionally and physically abused, and became easy targets for sexual predators. Stay tuned as we talk with Kristofer about Menudo, the allegations made in the film, and how the band still has a fond place in the hearts of millions. Kristofer, welcome to Factual America. How are things with you?
Kristofer Rios 03:40
Going okay, all things considered!
Matthew 03:43
Yeah, you've just - I mean, you need to share because you've already told us. You've got Covid.
Kristofer Rios 03:49
I've got Covid. I managed to - I think I actually got Covid early, early on. At the time, I was working for ABC News, and I was out quite a bit. But since then, I've managed to avoid it. And then just the other day, came down with a fever. The fever is done, but, you know, it's - Covid's a journey, so, I'm still feeling a little fatigued. Yeah.
Matthew 04:14
Well, as I said before, I think you're the first guest we've had who's actually had Covid when we've been talking with them; so, thank you so much for soldiering on. It's very much appreciated. As our listeners and viewers should know, as they've heard the intro, we're talking with Kristofer Rios. His film is Menudo: Forever Young. Released in June on HBO Max. Does it have a wider release coming? Is it going international at any time soon?
Kristofer Rios 04:49
Well, I believe that, like, because it's on HBO Max, it's on all of its international platforms. I mean, we - I know for a fact that, like, we are out in Latin America. You know, and in Spain, I would be surprised if we aren't, you know, kind of not shared more widely, but we've been doing really well in the Latin American market right now.
Matthew 05:11
I can imagine you have been. I mean, how's the reaction been so far, and congratulations for getting the film to this stage.
Kristofer Rios 05:21
Thank you. You know, I think for me personally, and I probably do speak for the larger production team, one of the things that we were just most, not concerned with, but really kind of anxious about wanting to know, once it was released was, how fans were gonna react to it. Because, you know, the film, it's a four part docu-series, the first two parts really do celebrate the band, and all of its contributions to pop music, and all of the sort of barriers that the, you know, that the boys broke for Latinx musicians, Puerto Rican musicians, but the last two episodes really kind of delve into some of the harder things that the band members experienced while they were in the band. And, you know, not much of what we reveal in the docu-series had not been published or had not been sort of exposed before, but I don't think that many fans knew about it. And so, for us, it was a tricky balance between celebrating the band, but also talking about these harder things that we felt were necessary, that the band members themselves, you know, in our conversations with them, this is what they were putting forward, they felt was necessary. And so, the thing that we were anxious about was, when it finally was released, how the fans were going to engage with it. Were they going to understand that, you know, what we were attempting to do is, yes, celebrate the band, but also have everyone understand the cost that, you know, that the band members paid to be in the band. And so far, I think what we're seeing is that the fans are getting it, you know, they really understand what we're trying to say with the film. They're really engaging with the band members and the things that they're sharing in the film - in the series, sorry. And that to me is a relief.
Matthew 07:13
I imagine. Well, I think you've done it quite well. And actually lends itself naturally to a four parter, doesn't it? But I mean, let's celebrate the band for - well, let's talk about the celebration side of things first.
Kristofer Rios 07:29
Yeah, yeah.
Matthew 07:30
I mean...
Kristofer Rios 07:30
My favorite part.
Matthew 07:30
... maybe for - Yeah - I mean, for our listeners, can you, maybe, put Menudo in a historical perspective in terms of what they meant; you know, many of us who were alive at the time and aware of them maybe didn't quite appreciate at the time.
Kristofer Rios 07:48
Yeah, so, I like to say that they're the sort of first modern global boy band in the way that we understand boy bands right now, right. I mean, of course, you had the Beatles. Of course, you had the Jackson Five. Even had groups like The Busters, but when you think about boy bands, the way that we engage with them and consume them now, Backstreet Boys, you know, In Sync, 98 degrees, BTS, right, Menudo is the first band to really commercialize young men in this way, right, and, you know, Puerto Ricans don't need a lot to be proud - don't need a lot to sort of start talking about how amazing we are and how proud we are of our island, but this is one of those situations where, and most of the situations are true, but this is one of those situations where, you know, Menudo as you know, as Puerto Ricans representing a small island in the Caribbean that has a very complex relationship with the United States. They really did this first. And Menudo, through, you know, through extension, really brought, you know, like, a lot of attention and brought a lot of pride and joy to the island because we're talking about a time period, you know, this is the late 70s, through the mid 90s. Puerto Rico's coming out of a recession, really had suffered a lot in terms of just sort of restructuring and its economy through the 40s, 50s, and 60s, right. Really needs a win and Menudo just sort of comes out. It goes into the world. It really kind of strikes a chord in the youth in Latin America. And it really just kind of takes the world by storm in the 80s, right. And so, it's a really big deal for the island. It's a really big deal for the diaspora, you know, like Puerto Ricans in the United States and other parts of the world. And it's, yeah, I mean, it's just amazing for us to be able to say that they did it first. You know, I think the other thing, you know, so that's what we always sort of lead with, right, they were the first boy band, but I think that when we think about global youth culture, it's also the first model, you know, that is, you know, from a small island like Puerto Rico, connecting to Venezuelans to Peruvians to Mexicans, to people in the United States to Italians. I mean, they had Italian albums, they were massive in Brazil, they were, you know, they went to Japan several times. Really big in the Philippines. You know, this is the late 70s, early 80s, that we're talking about, it seems very common now. I mean, anyone can become globally famous using social media. But back then there wasn't social media, right. And so, it's a big feat for a very small, what starts as a small kind of family run operation out of a place like Puerto Rico, to explode in this way. It's a really big thing. And it's an interesting enough model, you know, for the music industry, that a big label like RCA signs them for a multi-million dollar, multi-year deal, right. That's not a small thing, right. The other thing that, I think, is really, you know, and so kind of going back to being proud Puerto Ricans, I also think they do a lot for, you know, this is the late 70s, early 80s. There's a lot of people that are immigrating to the United States from places like Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Mexico, Puerto Rico, I mean, we're citizens, but, you know, there are a lot of Puerto Ricans now, not on the island living in the United States, and at this time in the early 80s, you know, you're a Puerto Rican living in New York, you're a Mexican living in New York, this idea of Latinx as an identity, as, you know, your experience coming from a place like Puerto Rico or coming from a place like Mexico, but living in the United States as a distinct experience, that's not quite articulated yet in the 80s, right; we're living in our little communities. Menudo was the first time where Puerto Ricans and Mexicans and El Salvadorans and Hondurans, in the United States, have a touchdown, right? We have a band that we can celebrate that speaking in our language, right. Yes, they're from Puerto Rico, but you can be from another part of Latin America, be a Spanish speaker, right, and love them, idolize them. And that's an important thing, not just for the adults because in a lot of the archival footage, we find that, like, you know, the adults are super happy that their daughters are into Menudo, because they're worried that their children are going to start losing the language. So, they're like, great, if my daughter wants to celebrate this band that speaks Spanish, amazing, but it's really important for that generation, that young generation, that first, second generation of people living in diaspora to find that commonality, and to finally be seen, right. I think that's the thing that we hear a lot from the fans, that we hear, you know, that we heard in the archival but also heard in our interviews with the fans that before Menudo, if you are Puerto Rican living in the South Bronx, a lot of what you're confronting in the media, a lot of the representations of yourself in the media, are that you are, you know, you live in communities that are crime ridden, right, you live in communities that are dangerous, right. When Menudo shows up, that's not the narrative because they're polished, right. They are projecting goodwill, they're projecting good values, and they're being celebrated. You know, Ed Koch, the mayor of New York at the time, brings them to City Hall and gives them keys to the city, right. They're at the UN. They're at Madison Square Garden. They're at Radio City Music Hall. They're at these premier venues. And it's the first time for a lot of young people that they see themselves in someone that - that, to me, is one of the most important things that Menudo does. They really allow for young people in the Spanish speaking diaspora in the United States to have a bigger sense of themselves. And to have a sense of, You know, what? I can go places, too. Because up until that point, that's not the messages that they're getting in the media - in the US media, right. That's not the representations in themselves that they're getting in the media.
Matthew 14:10
I was just going to say, I think that was all excellent, because, if I can add my own little bit of perspective on this, I grew up in South Texas and as what we would call an Anglo down there. I did work with, you know, this was early 80s working with Latinos, and it was, you know, me settling on that there are there all these different cultural differences within the Latino community, right, but that wasn't what then I discovered. They were really - Menudo, I think the other one that comes to mind is someone like Gloria Estefan, right. They were, you know, Cuban from South Florida, but, you know, they were - the guys I worked with in South Texas, were so excited about this, you know, this was something that was - Their Spanish language was being celebrated, their kids were interested in holding on to the language, these sorts of things were - it was quite the phenomenon, as you've pointed out, in terms of where, you know, what had been before, and then they and Menudo along with others were changing.
Kristofer Rios 15:20
And, you know, if I may, just belabor the point a little bit more, right. I think that, like, this thing about languages, we express it in the series, but there's a lot to say, and we don't really go into it too much, but it's hugely important, you know, now, to some extent, depending on where you are in the world, right, being bilingual, being multilingual is celebrated, right? It's an asset. I mean, you know, I came up and, you know, I was born in 83. So, you know, my, kind of, like, formative years are in the 90s, but even in the 90s, you know, growing up in the US speaking Spanish wasn't something that was celebrated, you know, like, yes, if you went to Spanish class, and you were a little bit more advanced, great, awesome, right. But if you were out on the streets, you know, or if you were out in certain places, speaking Spanish wasn't something - That's another really big thing that Menudo does, that is not uncommon today, you know, BTS is probably the biggest boy band, pop boy band, in the world right now. And they speak Korean. I mean, I've seen kids in Newark, New Jersey, you know, just, you know, losing their minds over BTS. And they don't understand what they're saying, but it doesn't matter, anymore. Back then, it did matter. Back then, if you were, you know, in certain parts of New York City, or you were in certain neighborhoods, and you're talking Spanish to your parents, right, that stigmatized you. So, for Menudo to do what they did all in Spanish, to an extent, right, there is a part where they do crossover, and they start singing in English, right. But their early success, what got them there was just songs in Spanish, right. That's a big deal. And it's a big deal, not just because they are breaking barriers in their own language, but it's a big deal, because they're allowing people who are native Spanish speakers in United States or in the diaspora, to finally feel seen.
Matthew 17:15
Yeah, I mean, this is at the same time that you had some states, I remember California, people pushing for laws to make English the official language. You know, there's no official language in the United States, but it's obvious that English is the lingua franca of the US. But, you know, there were these kind of efforts in place to stamp down on actual use of Spanish in public places, and in the workplace, and stuff like that, so. But besides, I mean, so, I mean, we could go on. I know our time is tight, actually, but we could go on about the celebratory side, and it's your film, the docu-series celebrates that; some great archival that you have and showing the phenomenon that was and is Menudo. But then there was this darkness also behind this feel good story. And maybe you can talk about - I mean, people should watch the series, you go into a lot of detail, but I mean, maybe you can tell us a little about the conditions that these boys had to operate under?
Kristofer Rios 18:24
Yeah, so I think most of the stuff, most of the lite stuff is not of any surprise, you know, it's a music industry. And it's a music industry in a money making, capitalist system. So, you know, I think that when people hear that these kids were overworked, when they hear that, not at first, but, you know, within, like, two or three iterations of the band, because you know, the model is that the brand stays the same, but what they did was they rotated out the boys as they aged, so the second they hit - you know, the rule was the second they hit puberty, right, they got too old, that's it, you're gone, you're celebrated, thank you for your time, and then they brought in a much younger, you know, boy to replace the person who's leaving, right. That wasn't a hard and fast rule, especially towards the end, right. But, you know, that model of, like, rotating people out meant for those three or four years that that boy was in the band, the machine, right, Menudo the machine had to extract maximum profit from them. And so, in the early years, the band members were partners in the organization, right, partners in Menudo. But very quickly, the management figures out that it's going to be much more convenient for them and much more profitable for them if they have them on a salary. So, sort of scaled, right? You went in at one salary and the longer you stayed with the band your salary went up. But it did cap, right. And so, what happens when commercial deals are being brought in, right. What happens when, you know, Colgate wants you to do a commercial for them or Mc - I believe it was McDonald's; or what happens when you do TV appearances, right, when you're on ABC shows, right. Where does that money go? Well, the money goes to the organization, right, it goes to Menudo. And then it is paid out in your salary. So, you know, if you're making tons of money off of commercial deals, right, but that's not being translated to money that's being given to the band members, that's not exactly fair. Or at least that's the perspective of the band members, right, that it wasn't equitable, it wasn't fair, right. So, a lot of that was going on. You know, when I say overwork, you know, I mean, what we heard from these guys, is that they would leave in January and not see their family until, like, December, right. They would just go, they would go on tour. Yeah, sure, they would come back, like, maybe for a weekend here and there. But they're basically, once they are in the band, and once they start heading out on tour, on the road, non-stop. And once they're on the road, right, their schedule, their daily schedule, was pretty rigorous, you know, waking up at 6am, maybe doing a little bit of school, although schooling wasn't consistent, and schooling wasn't a priority. But maybe they did like half an hour, an hour in the morning, right, while they're having breakfast. And then from seven, let's say, on, they're doing stuff related to the enterprise, either practicing or going on radio promotion, or TV promotion, or magazine promotion, or doing concerts, and then they don't go to bed until very late in the evening, right. Very late at night, right. That's the kind of conditions that these guys are working under. And so, that's sort of the lite stuff, the exploitation-lite that we call, you know, that we would call it, right. That isn't a total surprise, right.
Matthew 22:05
Yeah. We just remind ourselves, we're talking about 12 to 15, 16 year old boys working under these conditions. But then it's more than ridiculously long hours. So, then, I guess the sort of phase two, or whatever, is the physical and mental abuse as well. I mean, you know, you even have the story about the one who was basically minutes away from dying because of emergency appendicitis and things like that. I mean, that sounded horrendous.
Kristofer Rios 22:38
Yeah, Angelo. Yeah, so, you know, this is something that, I think is - we tried to show as a part of the culture, right, a part of the culture of being behind-the-scenes in Menudo, the mental and physical abuse. You know, I think some people will watch this and be like, Like, who would get on stage and, in pain, and perform to the point of, you know, throwing up blood, right, like who would do that? But you got to understand that the first thing that I think was really shocking to us to find out is that Edgardo Diaz, when these kids were entered into the band, he was in loco parentis, right, he was effectively their legal guardian, right, and so, that's number one, right, like, Edgardo Diaz and the enterprise, Menudo the enterprise, had legal guardianship over these boys. So, once they leave their parents' home, right, that's it, right, they belong to Menudo. The other thing is that there is this behind-the-scenes culture, you know, you come into the band and you're hazed; naturally, right. I mean, any system, any culture, like, you have to adapt to it. But the hazing is very specific and very much about getting the new band member to conform to this behind-the-scenes culture, right. And so, and if you don't conform, if you don't fit, that's it, you're out. But from a perspective of a performer, right, who wants to be in Menudo, they audition for Menudo, like, this is the opportunity of a lifetime, right, so, why would you squander that, right. So, what you're going to do is you are going to conform, you are going to adapt, you are going to try to fit in this behind-the-scenes culture. So, yeah, I mean, you know, that early hazing, you know, that they experienced, and this was consistent; we heard this from all the band members, you know, that was very much about getting them to tolerate, you know, a certain level of, you know, abuse that most people would never tolerate. And so, when someone tells a story, like, you know, I was up on stage and I blacked out, start coughing blood, and I black out and I wake up in the hospital. It's because you have to understand that Angelo is in an environment that is really set up to extract as much from him and really not care much about his well being. And he, you know, he was in it; he was in that culture; he was in that system, yeah.
Matthew 22:39
Yeah. And then the other - taking it to the deepest, darkest sides of things, these boys are surrounded by sexual predators, their parents aren't around, as you say, and for some of them, they became victims of abuse and rape, isn't that true?
Kristofer Rios 25:38
Yes. So, you know, in the series, Angelo, he shares a story about being raped a series of times. And that's an extreme, that's a very extreme, that's a very extreme story. I don't want people to walk away with the impression this happened to all the band members, because that's not true, right. But what is true is that there was a pervasive behind-the-scenes environment where these boys were - I mean, they were being sexualized, you know, on the album covers, in the merchandising, right. That didn't stop once they went home, you know. Once they stopped, they got off the stage and went back to the hotel rooms or went back home. And mind you, they often shared, you know, shared living space when they weren't on tour with the management, right. So, they weren't going back home to their parents, they're going back home to these houses and these homes that, like, the management had set up around the world, or in Puerto Rico, right. So, that sexualization, that environment didn't stop, right. And the people who were around, you know, who are helping, and so, this is something that we do kind of characterize in the documentary, when I say the people who were around, it could be the management, it could be - you know, it's a big enterprise. So, when you go to Mexico to tour or when you go to Venezuela to tour, right, their local promoters, their local, you know, there're people in that sort of entourage, right, that also have a predilection for young boys, right. And so, these are the people that the band members are engaging with, and coming into contact with day in, day out, right, that are, you know, that see these boys as, you know, sex icons, right. And so, they were dealing with this consistently, you know, and we share some stories, and, you know, in the film, and I should say that everything that's in our docu-series is stuff that we've been able to corroborate, right.
Matthew 27:49
Right.
Kristofer Rios 27:50
There's a lot of - it's not like, you know, Oh, this guy told me and we're gonna put in the film. No, it doesn't work that way, right. There's many, many, many points of reporting and corroboration and just things that, like, we're hearing kind of repetitive, you know, like, that we feel comfortable saying, Okay, this can be put in the docu-series, right. So, there's a lot of other stories that we've heard, you know, that you can't put in there. Because, you know, you maybe heard it from two people or you don't have enough corroboration, right. The one thing I do feel confident saying is that, like, yes, like, when they were in the band, most of their days, they were being sexualized on and off the stage.
Matthew 28:32
Yeah. Well, and I guess we should say, I mean, there's allegations also made about Edgardo Diaz. And just to be fair, you've reached out to him for comment, and he's himself has long denied any of these allegations. So, we just...
Kristofer Rios 28:49
Yeah.
Matthew 28:50
... but, as you say, certainly your journalism background comes to the fore and so that's very much appreciated, actually. Actually, I'm going to give our listeners a quick break, but we'll be right back with Kristofer Rios, one of the directors of Menudo: Forever Young. Released in June on HBO Max. Most of you listening to this should have access to that around the world.
Factual America midroll 29:17
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Matthew 29:37
Welcome back to Factual America. I'm here with award winning filmmaker Kristofer Rios, one of the directors of Menudo: Forever Young, released in June on HBO Max. So, we've been talking about this docu-series that you've done about the band Menudo How did you get involved with this project? Was this your idea? I mean, how, you know, how did this happen?
Kristofer Rios 30:05
Yeah, I can't take credit for the idea. So, you know, our director, or my co-director, Angel Manuel Soto, it's really his idea, and it's something that he, you know, a lot of people think that these things, you know, you have the idea, and then in three months, you're pitching it, and then in six months, that's it, you've got the money, and you're doing it. It doesn't really work that way, ever. Yeah. So, Angel Manuel was working on this for, I want to say, seven or eight years. And, you know, he comes from the scripted world, although he does have experience in documentary. But, you know, right now, he's actually making, you know, a film for Warner. And when he met our executive producers on this project, he had just finished a film, a scripted film. And so, he had envisioned this project as a scripted series. I think that any one from my generation that grew up in sort of, you know, born in the 80s, and grew up in, you know, the 80s, 90s, and maybe just before our generation, they know, Menudo. They know, I mean, I grew up with Menudo party favors being handed out at birthday parties, you know, because I grew up a little bit on the island, right. And so, but Angel Manuel, like, he actually, quite literally grew up with these guys, you know, like...
Matthew 31:25
Wow.
Kristofer Rios 31:25
... he, yeah, he's from Santurce, and he knew some of these guys who ended up becoming band members. And so, as someone who grew up with these guys, and is friends with some of these guys, right, just, you know, from by growing up, right, he knew some of this behind-the-scenes stuff that, like, wasn't really being spoken, like, you know, out loud, right. And so, when he imagined this series, he really imagined it as one, first and foremost, one that allowed the narrative to be put into the hands of not necessarily just the band members, really all-the-behind the scenes players that never had their, you know, their chance to tell their version of the story of Menudo. Because, up until, I mean, I don't want to say up until this documentary series, but really, up until quite recently, you know, the people who really put their blood, sweat, and tears into making Menudo what it was, didn't have an opportunity to share their version of the story. Edgardo and a few other people who, you know, were the ones who claimed to be Menudo, right, they were the ones who really kind of shaped the narrative of the band; shaped the legend and the lore of the band. When you go back, and you look through the archival and you look at, like, what adult is talking, what adult is telling the story of the band, it's Edgardo and a few other people. The band members outside of just sort of the, you know, the lite sort of teenybopper stuff that, you know, what's your favorite color? Do you like girls? Do you have a girlfriend? They didn't really get to share their story much outside of that stuff, right. So, that was really Angel Manuel's vision; it was to tell the story about the band. Scripted, because it gave them a little bit more leeway, right. But tell the story about the band from the perspective of the band members. Well, someone else had the same idea. And so, they kind of beat him to the punch. And so, there is an Amazon Prime series that I think is, I don't actually know if it ever was widely released in the United States, but in Latin America, certainly you can see it, called Subete a Mi Moto, and it's about - it's a scripted, fictionalized version of the story of Menudo, right. Well, he was, you know, I think when that came out, he was kind of a little disheartened. But thankfully, he connected with Christina Constantini and Alex Fumero who are the director and producer, respectively, of Mucho Mucho Amor: The legend of Walter Mercado. It's a Netflix doc about the Puerto Rican astrologer, and they were at Sundance at the same time. So, Angel was there for his film, and they were there for the doc. And they connect, because, you know, the great minds, right. And so, I think it was sort of in that meeting at Sundance, between Angel and Alex and Christina, where they were like, you know, this project isn't dead, it might actually be better as a docu-series. So, that's where it starts. And so, it took them about a year, year and a half, to develop. And once it started to become - it was obviously it was a more serious project. That's when they brought me in. I know Alex and Christina. So, Christina and I were immigration reporters at Fusion for several years.
Matthew 31:51
Okay.
Kristofer Rios 32:29
And then Alex Fumero also - we used to work together at Fusion. So, they were thinking who would be a good showrunner to kind of come in and help make this story, you know, make the story what it is now.
Matthew 35:07
Yeah.
Kristofer Rios 35:08
And that's how I get involved. And I think they thought of me, one, because I do have a background, and I have, I sort of have this background both in documentary filmmaking and news. And they saw this not just as, you know, yes, celebration of the band, and we wanted to do all that great stuff. But you can't tell this story without going into the things that we do go into in the later episodes. And they really felt like they needed someone with, not necessarily an investigative background, but a journalistic background, to navigate those stories in a way that, you know, really, we're going to be profound, but we're gonna be, you know, journalistically, and ethical and above board.
Matthew 35:52
And, yes, and I think, I mean, as you've already alluded to, you do drag up a lot of - I was gonna say dark secrets a lot, as you've noted, a lot of this stuff had been reported before, but these stories, I mean, how difficult was that for the former band members? Because you, you know, how do you handle that? Because they share a lot of detail that I know, it must have been very difficult for them to relive, if you will.
Kristofer Rios 36:23
Yeah. You know, I found that the, I mean, there are some very, there are some very difficult things that are shared. And not all the interviews were easy. I'm very grateful that all the people who participated in this, you know, in this, it's not just the band members, really all the people that participated in this documentary series, they came to us very open, and they came to us ready to be genuine. And I think if there's anything that's good about this docu-series, it's that the conversations that we have, they are genuine, you know. I think the hard part was convincing them that we weren't going to do more of the same, right, that we weren't going to do more of what had happened to them in the past, you know. This isn't the first time that the band members have come forward to try to share what they experienced, right. When they did it in the past, sometimes it was well received. But most of the time, there was a lot of victim blaming, there was a lot of doubt, there was a lot of sort of, you know, the burden of proof was basically placed on them, you know; what they were saying wasn't accepted at face value, which I think in most cases, when we're talking about people who have experienced the things that, you know, sexual abuse and physical abuse, and, you know, this kind of mental abuse, violence, right. We know now that, like, our default should be to believe the victims and then unpack it, right? That wasn't culturally, not just in Puerto Rico, but around the world, that wasn't what was the common practice back then, right. So, they were very hesitant when we came forward, and we said, Hey, we want to do this docu-series. And we would really love to hear from your perspective, naturally so. I think that we were persistent. And we really slowed down the process. I mean, when someone tells you, when a network tells you, you have a year to make the thing, the instinct is to say, you know, okay, let's get these guys right now, you know, like, and let's pressure them and we knew we had nothing if we didn't have, not just the band members, but genuine conversations with them. So, we really took our time when approaching them to just have a conversation, right. The first time we talked to many of them, it wasn't like, Hey, are you ready to do this? It was like, Look, just hear us out. You know? And if at the end of the conversation, you say no, that's cool, you know, but we just want you to hear us out. And thankfully, there were a couple of the guys who were really, you know, they trusted us, and they were brave. And we did those rounds of interviews very early. And then, you know, they talk, right, like, they were in a band together, and it's also sort of like a kind of brotherhood. So, once we did the first couple of interviews, they started to kind of report back to the other guys what their experience was like with us and that kind of then opened, you know, opened new channels of communication with some of the other band members. So, I think that was the hardest part. Once we got into the room, I think that we had built enough trust and we had shown to them that we were serious, right that we had done our homework and that we really were there to just kind of let them say what they needed to say, given our research and our reporting, right, but, you know, let them kind of share their story. And so, when they started to go into things that are more difficult, in the moment, it's emotionally draining for everyone, you know, because you realize that you're bringing people back to things that are unpleasant and unhappy, right. But I think that, on the other hand, you know, we didn't just talk about the bad stuff. We talked about, you know, their favorite times in the band. Yeah, and, you know, and vibes were really great on set, like we had an amazing field team, you know, we had an amazing production team. And we really tried hard to, you know, like, to create environments on set where it's like, yeah, we're gonna talk about some hard things, but let's take a break, let's go, you know, like, have some coffee, let's just talk about things that are not this for a second. We really, you know, went out of our way to do those kinds of things, because it would be hard for anyone to go back to these times, and to go back to these stories. So, I like to think we were successful. We do have great, you know, great, a great rapport with many of all, really, with all the guys who participated. And so, I think that's a testament to it, but, yeah, not easy. But, you know, I think that at the end of the day, the most important thing was the trust and the respect that - the mutual trust and respect that - my team and myself had for these guys.
Matthew 38:01
And it must have been something incredible for you as well, because as you said, you grew up as a child with this band, and now you're meeting all these former band members. That must have been a real kick.
Kristofer Rios 41:44
Yeah, I mean, I can't say that - that wasn't quite the demographic. I can't say I was - you know, I was more of a hip hop head. I can't say I was a fan. But I certainly am a fan now. I, you know, I will say that. Yeah, I have a record collection. And I started buying - you know, once you start sort of going into it, and you start seeing the musical genius, like, because there is musical genius there. I think the producers and the composers and the guys themselves have immense amount of talent. I started buying their records. And it's now part of - I haven't DJed in a while, but if I do, it'll be part of my, you know, be part of my [inaudible]. But, yeah, I mean, it is, but that said, right, I think that to me, what was, you do get star struck, right, you do. You know, we never sat down with Ricky Martin, you know, like, we never sat down, like, with Draco Rosa, you know, like, the big guys who, you know, are, you know, like, sort of a different category of star, but that's okay. I mean, these guys are as professional as any superstar that, you know, that you would come across, I'll tell you that much. Like, they really know what they're doing. That discipline that they learned, you know, so many years ago, while being in the band, it continues to this day. And they bring that professionalism. So, you do feel a little star struck when you meet these guys, right. And, yeah, I'm a super Menudo fan now. Maybe not as serious as some of the people you see in the film who like have, like, Menudo everything on their walls, but I probably know as much and certainly respect and love them as much.
Matthew 43:30
And so, what do you want the docu-series' legacy to be? A celebration of Menudo, but also maybe a cautionary tale of fame, and what happens can happen?
Kristofer Rios 43:44
That's a good question. I mean, certainly that, yeah. I certainly do think that, you know, in the last couple years, we've seen things, like, and I'm not, this is not putting our series on par with these, I'm just saying, like, you know, Leaving Neverland and the Britney Spears doc in the sense that, like, they were taking pop icons, and were exploring the stories that we didn't explore when we were consuming their music and when they were icons, right. I think that if there's anything to take away in the immediate it's that, you know, as consumers of anything, really, but especially, you know, of music; as fans of music, right, we really do have to consider how our participation in that market, right, how our dollars and our consumption, right, what impact and effect that has on the person that's making the music, right, because there's the image that's being packaged and that's being sold to you, right, but then there's the person behind that, right. You know, kind of different, right. But, you know, Kanye West, right, he's - we know that Kanye West is the musician and who is the rapper and the producer, and then there's a Kanye West that goes on to TMZ and goes on to these shows and looks like, you know, he's losing his mind. And we dismiss him, right; we say he's losing his mind, right; well, there's a person there. And there's a person that's going through things and yes, he's making a lot of money, you know, we're helping him make a lot of money, but there's still a person there, right. And so, I think that the thing that I learned through this process is that we shouldn't be so dismissive of these pop stars' humanity, right, because we miss a whole lot, we miss a whole lot in the moment, and then, you know, many years later, we have to go and make a documentary to revisit that and say, Oh, wow, this is how we contributed to that, right. So, I think that one thing that we are learning, certainly, you know, through these documentaries that are exploring the history of these pop stars, right, is that when it happens in the moment, we should maybe take a step back and say, Okay, what is happening here, right, and not just dismiss them, as these popstars. So, that's the one thing. But, you know, I think the other thing I hope, on an industry level, right, and I say industry, I mean, like, doc filmmaking, is that, you know, we can both, like, something can both be great, and also difficult.
Matthew 46:21
Yeah.
Kristofer Rios 46:23
And I think that there's a tendency, like nuances, is not always celebrated, right. There's a tendency to believe that, like, you know, Oh, the audience can't get it. And I'm not certainly not saying that that's our experience on this project. The network was amazing. And it really supported us and really got it from the beginning, right. But generally, it's like, you know, like, we don't, you know, we don't really think that those two things can happen, right? Like, you know, two things can hold the same space. And so, there's a lot of great stories that aren't told, right. If there's one narrative that exists about something, then that's sort of the established narrative, but then there's something that counters that, it's like, well, is that true? You know, and it takes many, many, many years for this counter-narrative to then kind of become, you know, more weighted, right, for then us to explore it. I mean, this docu-series could have been done any, you know, like, many years ago, right. I mean, it's not, you know, the material was all there, right. And it's just because, you know, there was this myth of Menudo, this legend of Menudo, that it was this great thing. And then there was this other stuff that was bubbling, right, but it wasn't, you know, it's like, how could this great thing also do, like, you know, kind of harm, you know, the people involved in it in this way, right. How? And so, they can both be true, you know, like, and the guys will tell you this, it's like, Yes, I had some of the most amazing times in my life while in the band, and I also had some of the worst times in my life on the band. And they're both true. And so, I think, as doc filmmakers, or as storytellers, or as, you know, as people in this industry, when we're looking for stories we shouldn't be afraid to - and it's certainly changing, right, but, you know, we shouldn't be afraid to go at stories that are a little contradictory. I think there's so much more there, that's interesting, right. So much more, like, when it's both true. It's like that, you know, that's a four part docu-series, right.
Matthew 48:34
Exactly, exactly. Well, I think you've just brilliantly summed up what I love about documentary filmmaking and what I think is happening in the industry as well. And may that long continue, and may you long continue making great docu-series and features, and we look forward to having you on again sometime, Kristopher, it's been a pleasure chatting with you. And all well done while having Covid. So, you know...
Kristofer Rios 49:05
Thank you! I hope I made sense!
Matthew 49:09
You made plenty of sense, I can tell you right now. So, I just want to say thank you again to Kristofer Rios, one of the directors and one of the producers of Menudo: Forever Young. It's currently on HBO Max, do go watch it. And hopefully we can have Kristofer on again with his next project. So, thanks again, Kristofer, and enjoy the rest of your day.
Kristofer Rios 49:36
Thank you, it's been my pleasure.
Matthew 49:40
I'd like to give a shout out to Sam and Joe Graves at Innersound Audio, in Escrick, England, in deepest, darkest Yorkshire. A big thanks to Nevena Paunovic, podcast manager at Alamo Pictures, who ensures we continue getting great guests onto the show. And finally, a big thanks to our listeners. As always, we love to hear from you. So, please keep sending us feedback and episode ideas. You can reach out to us on YouTube, social media, or directly by going to our website, www.factualamerica.com, and clicking on the Get in Touch link. And as always, please remember to like us and share us with your friends and family, wherever you happen to listen or watch podcasts. This is Factual America signing off.
Factual America Outro 50:21
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