Neymar: The Perfect Chaos – The Director's Perspective
Neymar: The Perfect Chaos, currently streaming on Netflix, tells the story of the beloved but often criticised footballer Neymar, the highs and lows of his personal life, and his brilliant football career.
Award-winning filmmaker David Charles Rodrigues joins us to discuss the film and reveals how he gained almost full access to Neymar’s life.
During filming of this documentary, David found sides to Neymar that he found surprising. In the process, he managed to build a strong relationship with the player.
We also touch on what it was like working with LeBron James, who serves as Executive Producer on the series, and his athlete empowerment brand Uninterrupted.
“Neymar understood that he really needed to give me everything so that I could tell the best story possible.” - David Charles Rodrigues
Time Stamps:
00:00 - Excerpt from the trailer for Neymar: The Perfect Chaos.
02:20 - How the series shows the human side of the legendary football player.
05:12 - What Neymar was like and the surprising parts of his personality.
07:11 - How he became famous and the extent of his passion for football.
09:43 - The transformation that he went through during filming.
12:10 - The dynamic between Neymar and his father.
15:44 - The skills the father has in sports marketing and the marketing he does for his son.
19:44 - How David got involved with the making of the film.
21:35 - What it’s like working with LeBron James and Uninterrupted.
23:50 - How Kobe Bryant’s death affected Neymar.
27:07 - How David built such a strong bond of trust with the player.
32:32 - The film's reach around the world.
34:44 - What Neymar means for Brazil.
36:06 - How David started working as a documentary director.
39:00 - The next projects he is now working on.
Resources:
Neymar: The Perfect Chaos (2022)
Personal Velocity (2002)
Uninterrupted
Pelé (2021)
MovieMaker Magazine
Innersound Audio
Alamo Pictures
Connect with David Charles Rodrigues:
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Transcript for Factual America Episode 85: Neymar: The Perfect Chaos – The Director's Perspective
David Charles Rodrigues 00:00
Hi, I'm David Charles Rodrigues, director of Neymar: The Perfect Chaos, and it's a real honor to be on Factual... South America, I guess, on this episode.
Speaker 1 00:11
Neymar!
Speaker 2 00:12
Breaking news is a world record deal for Neymar.
Speaker 3 00:16
[222 million Euros.]
Speaker 3 00:19
[The pressure is overwhelming.]
Speaker 4 00:22
[I don't know about you, but I'm ready to party.]
Speaker 5 00:25
[He acts too much like a celebrity. He's too high on himself.]
Speaker 6 00:29
[Laughter]
Speaker 7 00:31
[Even though I'm his dad, it's not easy to manage him.]
Speaker 8 00:36
[When you say I screw up a lot, it's because of that.]
Speaker 9 00:38
[What do I think?]
Speaker 10 00:40
[You hate contradictions.]
Speaker 11 00:41
[It hasn't been easy.]
Matthew 00:19
This is Factual America. We're brought to you by Alamo Pictures an Austin and London based production company making documentaries about America for international audiences. I'm your host, Matthew Sherwood. Each week I watch a hit documentary and then talk with the filmmakers, and their subjects. This week, it is my pleasure to welcome the award winning filmmaker David Charles Rodrigues, the director of the Netflix docu-series, Neymar: The Perfect Chaos. The name says it all. The film documents the rise to footballing glory of Neymar, Jr., one of the best soccer players in the world. Neymar's path has not been without its setbacks, challenges, and controversies as most of you will know. But in the process of telling Neymar's story, David also shines a light on fame, celebrity, and fatherhood in a social media age. David, welcome to Factual America. How are things with you?
David Charles Rodrigues 01:36
Everything's great. Yeah, Neymar: The Perfect Chaos, our series, was released this morning. So, it's been a pretty crazy day, but really fun to finally share it with the world.
Matthew 01:48
Yeah. Well, I'm glad you have, and congratulations on that achievement. Yes, we're recording this on January 25. So, yes, Neymar: The Perfect Chaos has just started streaming on Netflix. And it's a three part docu-series and highly recommend you give it a watch. I mean, sounds like a silly question given the name of the film, but maybe you can give us a little synopsis or tell us what Neymar the film is all about.
David Charles Rodrigues 02:21
Absolutely. Well, Neymar the athlete is, you know, one of the greatest and highest paid football players of all time, you know, in America, soccer players. But also, one of the most controversial, which you'll understand when you see the series. The series really focuses on - you know, he's someone that is always in the media and always on social media. So, it was a real challenge to find another angle in and really show a side of him that hasn't been shared before. And that was really the goal of making the series, and I feel really proud of what we accomplished. You really get up close and personal relationship with Neymar, and the relationship between him and his father, who's also his business manager. And, yeah, that's really the heart and soul of the show is just you get to meet Neymar the person more than in any other instance in his career.
Matthew 03:25
Well, that was one of the things I was gonna ask you: the challenges of making a film about an iconic personality who's basically grown up on social media in front of our eyes. And so, but as you said you wanted to focus in on things that maybe people didn't know about or get to the essence of who Neymar is. I mean, what are we going to see - if you go a little more detail - what are we going to see that maybe we haven't seen before even for those people who've been following him on social media all these years.
David Charles Rodrigues 03:57
I think you get to meet him, you know, as a person more than anything, and, obviously, the inner workings of him as a brand and as a business through his father are also things that aren't really very public, and they really kind of open themselves up to this experience. Obviously, all of this - you know, we followed him during the 2019-2020 season, which was, you know, full of ups and downs, but that was a kind of a bridge to be able to tell, you know, his career and also a little study on his legacy moving [inaudible]; so, it's a mix of, you know, a very fresh, never before seen moments and footage and stories with some key moments that really show you how he got to where he is right now.
Matthew 04:53
Yeah. You've spent all this time with him, like you said, the 2019-20 season with its ups and downs. I mean, what was your experience? What drives him? And what is he like, from a filmmaker standpoint, especially?
David Charles Rodrigues 05:10
Yeah, yeah, you know, in my work on anything I do, I really try to go in with no preconceived notions, even if I have any, I'll leave them at the door and it's like meeting a person for the first time, right, and with him, I was pleasantly surprised at how quickly we were able to create that connection and how he trusted my process, and really was his true self. You know, I think I also got lucky that I found him in a moment in his life, where he was ready to bear all and to really share his essence. And I think he understood that this documentary format and Netflix were the right platform - was the right platform to be able to do that, right; because you can't really do that in a sports interview or either on social media. I think once he understood my approach, and you know, once he caught on to the types of questions I was asking him, I think it [inaudible] understand the type of movie that we were making, and it was nothing that he's ever really experienced before, you know, as an athlete, or as a celebrity. So, yeah, so, you know, the thing that surprised me about him is actually his demeanor. You know, he's very sweet, very soft spoken, quite shy. His persona, you know, in his day-to-day life is, I don't wanna say different, but it's a different tone you see, you know, whether it's his explosive genius on the field, or his celebrity, you know, party vibe on social media.
Matthew 06:46
Right. I mean, doesn't his father even describe him as 'naive', I think, or something similar to that effect.
David Charles Rodrigues 06:55
[Inaudible], you know, you can, if you're watching the series as a skeptical you can kind of cringe at that moment. But I can guarantee you that that is, that is very true. You know, he is - I think it's a little more nuanced than the term naive. I think naive is a little bit too straightforward.
Matthew 07:17
Yeah.
David Charles Rodrigues 07:17
I think he's really authentic. You know, he grew up - his first big contract, I think his first million was around 12, between 12 and 14, and he was already, you know, he was already a celebrity in his hometown when he was nine years old.
Matthew 07:33
Yeah.
David Charles Rodrigues 07:33
So, you kind of grow up in that environment, and what I think was really awesome about him is that he really preserved his essence throughout this whole time. And I feel like after all the setbacks he had, you know, from 2017 to 2019, that really helped reground him, and I think he looked back in his heart and [inaudible] after that essence, and a big part of that essence, too, is his, you know, he really loves to play football, you know, like that's really, you know, [inaudible] drives him; that's literally - I know it sounds very simplistic, but that's literally what drives him is he loves to play, you know; he obviously, you know, like people like LeBron, or Jordan, or even Kobe, [inaudible] Wainwright, they are, like, hyper-competitors. He also has that in him [inaudible] but I think even above that he just loves to play. Like, any moment is a moment for him to play, you know, whether it's, you know, playing football, you know, beyond his practice, but also playing video games or card games with his friends.
Matthew 08:37
Yeah.
David Charles Rodrigues 08:38
Right, like, the idea of playing a game is just it is him.
Matthew 08:44
Yeah. I mean, I think you've, like, just to reiterate what you're saying for someone who has seen the series - and thank you Netflix, I didn't have to binge watch it today to get through the whole thing I was able to see it over the last few days - but, you know, that Episode Three, you're very fortunate as a filmmaker you're capturing him at a very interesting time in his life when he's, as you say, I think he's getting back in touch with who the true Neymar, Jr. is, it seems like, and that whole scene with him, you know, this horrible situation we've all been in with Covid and everything but he finds himself again in his love for football; even Mbappe talks about seeing him coming back on the training pitch - and how they all, football is this refuge for them. It's what they all love to do.
David Charles Rodrigues 09:35
Yeah, you know, every filmmaker's dream or their hope is to show their main character's transformation, right, or to find a transformational moment in their [inaudible] or in their careers, or whatever that you're showing, right. And we really lucked out with the fact that we were able to capture, you know - you know, he's turning 30 this year, but in a strange way, his coming-of-age, right, it is quite a coming-of-age story where, you know, even in the press and in social media, you know, when I started filming they would call him, you know, Neymar Junior or, you know, or Neymar the kid. And by the time we finished filming, you know, it became a hashtag, and a whole thing during the Champions' League that it was adult Ney. Even the New York Times wrote a really great article about how he finally came into his own. You know, some people may say, that's a little bit later in life, but realistically, when you have the type of life he has, it's, you know, it is the right time for him. You know, this is a very weird - there's a movie I really love. It's a small - it's an independent film from the 90s by Rebecca Miller called Personal Velocity and what the film really shows is that we can't compare ourselves to other people. We achieve things in our lives at different ages, you know, and I feel like, for Neymar this was his coming-of-age, this was his consecration into adulthood.
Matthew 11:21
Yeah, that's very interesting. And I think it's - what I also found interesting, because as you said, he's just Neymar, now, but for those of us who've been following football for a while we do know, remember him as first of all, as Neymar Junior, and obviously, where there's a junior, there's a senior and, as you've said, already, there's a, you know, the man behind the player - it's not something, I think - that's another thing, as you've already said, many of us would not have necessarily seen before, and I found his father very interesting and compelling on many different levels, and as you're capturing this father-son dynamic, and actually three generations, really, because of his - Neymar's son – Neymar, Jr.'s son - but, you know, even he's constantly makes reference to the hero. And, you know, whether it's comic book heroes or whatever, he's got - I mean, this guy was, I don't know his background, but he was, you know, he himself was a footballer and - but he's definitely got an eye for the story in the story arc and things like that, which I found very interesting.
David Charles Rodrigues 12:28
Yeah, you know, Neymar Senior, we could have easily portrayed him like Britney Spears's father character, but that's just not true. He's way more complex and way more interesting and way more unique of a story, you know; like, this guy, you know, there's many rags-to-riches stories in sports history, you know, and Neymar's story is exceptional, not unique. His father's story is very unique. You know, his father went from being, you know, almost amateur player, like a semi-pro-player, a failed semi-pro-player, to then a bricklayer, which in Brazil is really the lowest paying job you can ever have, to only 10 years later, making the biggest deal in sports history when he went from Barcelona to PSG. The level, the velocity of learning that this guy has, and how he's [inaudible] to apply himself, I've really never seen anything like that before. And, you know, of course, he is brash, and he has his shortcomings, you know, he can be somewhat of a bulldozer at times. And, you know, and, you know, and the lines between being a father and a manager blur all the time, you know, and [inaudible] as of his continuous and just overwhelming success, you know, with his, you know, Neymar as a brand, and then as a professional athlete, you know, the father taking care of his career, it really created a distance between them. Just by the nature of things, you know, it's just very hard. I do believe that in his heart, he wants the best interests for his son. But, you know, there's always that thin line between, you know, your interests, and then the interests of the person that you're working with, right, and that's a very thin line that we really tried to tread on and just show the nuances and complexities. But even through this process of that year, and of Neymar's maturing, I think the father also grew a lot and understood that for him to rescue that relationship with his son, he would have to let go of certain [inaudible] and really give Neymar a bigger stage to his own life and career, you know? I mean, I [inaudible] go on for hours talking about the dad, but he's a really fascinating character. They do deeply love each other. But that love, you know, sometimes gets expressed in ways that aren't that fun and we captured those.
Matthew 15:15
Well, that's a lot of families, though, isn't it? I mean, but as you said, he's extremely unique. I mean, maybe if you don't mind, you say, you could talk about him for hours, if you don't mind spending a few more minutes on him. I mean, maybe putting this in context, we're not just talking about even just acting as his manager. He's created this whole sports marketing business hasn't he, around, it's just solely about Neymar. I mean, how many people does he employ? It's 10s, 30 something, or something like that? It's amazing.
David Charles Rodrigues 15:43
Yeah, I mean, at the time we were filming, I think he had 140 employees.
Matthew 15:47
Oh, my goodness.
David Charles Rodrigues 15:49
Yeah. No, and it's instinct. You know, he took a few courses along the way. He said something to me. I don't know if it's in the series, but it really stuck with me. He was, like, when Neymar was - you know, I think when Neymar made his first contract...
Matthew 16:04
Yeah.
David Charles Rodrigues 16:05
... he, had other managers and stuff. But the dad was always shadowing those managers and learning from them. And he said, I quickly realized that if I want to help my son, and be a part of his life, I'm going to have to evolve just as quickly as he will, as a professional manager as him as an athlete. And they really grew together, you know, and obviously, not a straight line, and there's a lot of ups and downs in that. But that's a really fascinating story.
Matthew 16:37
Yeah. Which you bring to the screen, and which we see; I mean, like you said, it's a - well, people have to watch it, but I mean, it's not - I mean, we could talk about it for hours, and people wouldn't necessarily get the right idea, at least from me, because it is very - it's complicated, but it's also much more than - it's certainly not Britney Spears's dad. It's certainly, you know, it's more than the Williams sisters' tennis parents. He's, I mean, it comes out a few times he's - whatever you think, he is trying to create this security for his son that's going to outlive his soccer playing days. Which, and Neymar seems to - I think there's that father-son tension always there. But he seems to appreciate that at least on some level.
David Charles Rodrigues 17:36
Absolutely, you know, I can go as far as saying that, you know, he is a visionary in sports marketing. You know, like, pretty incredible. You know, I was very fortunate. I have a whole other career that, you know, I've worked a lot in advertising and to do with brands and I've been lucky to work with Steve Jobs at Apple, and with Brian Chesky at AirBnB, and especially with Brian Chesky very closely, and Neymar's dad, in his own Brazilian way, you know, fine way, has - they have a lot of similarities, you know, and me and him talked about that and I think that's why we got along very well because he knew that I was able to appreciate his, you know, his vision as a businessman, you know.
Matthew 18:23
I think that brings us to a good point to give our listeners a little break. So, we'll be right back with David Charles Rodrigues, the director of Neymar: The Perfect Chaos. Streaming now on Netflix as of January 25.
Factual America midroll 18:38
If you enjoy Factual America, check out the MovieMaker podcast. that's all one word: MovieMaker. Where our friends at moviemaker.com, interview everyone from filmmakers just breaking in to A-Listers, like David Fincher and Edgar Wright, about their movie making secrets and behind-the-scenes tricks of the trade. They go deep and let the guests speak uninterrupted, to get you the most film insight. Now back to Factual America.
Matthew 19:06
Welcome back to Factual America. I'm here with award winning director David Charles Rodrigues. The film is Neymar: The Perfect Chaos, out now on Netflix. We were just talking about, you know, we're talking about your discussions with Neymar's father. How did this project come about? Did the family approach Netflix? How did this all get started?
David Charles Rodrigues 19:33
Yeah, I'll start with how kind of I got into it, and then...
Matthew 19:36
Okay.
David Charles Rodrigues 19:37
I was working with my dear friend Ricardo Viramontes who's the head of creative at SpringHill.
Matthew 19:47
Okay.
David Charles Rodrigues 19:48
We were doing a series on basketball players and their tattoos, completely unrelated to this. And suddenly, out of the blue, you know, through LeBron and Maverick's relationship with Neymar, they sent us, you know, this opportunity, and said, hey, you know, Netflix signed a deal with Neymar, and Neymar really wants to work with you guys because he really likes, you know, Uninterrupted and SpringHill's way of telling athletes' stories, right; their value is more than an athlete, right. And they were very interested in that. And I just happened to be there at the time and I really; you know, my - I'm not a typical sports person, you know, I played basketball and I - you know, I grew up in [inaudible] Also I, you know, you inherently know all things about football.
Matthew 20:42
Yeah.
David Charles Rodrigues 20:43
I'm not a sports fanatic. And I really helped craft an angle and show a more broader picture of things that you don't necessarily have to be a sports fan to really like this series. You know, and I think that's what made the difference and got us to starting the production on this.
Matthew 21:02
I was gonna ask you later, you know, you mentioned LeBron James. I mean, maybe you could say a little bit more about his company. I know he's got a exec. producer role on this film and then also Neymar himself, obviously has an affinity for, you know, basketball and I think he was wearing LeBron's jersey on a few occasions in the film. It's an interesting relationship. But what's it like working with LeBron James on a film?
David Charles Rodrigues 21:34
Yeah, you know, I'm a huge fan of SpringHill and what they believe in [inaudible] they do things, and they have a really strong team of people, you know, from Jamal Henderson to Matt, and Ricardo, and, you know, and Devin, and many others, and Phil, and many other executives that I worked more closely with. Then you have LeBron and Maverick, you know, who run the show. And what they really do is they open the doors for us, and they make sure that the quality is at the highest level, you know, and I think of my experience working with them is really their belief and their trust, and their support, throughout the process, you know, everything we needed and wanted to make this successful, they helped us make it happen, you know, which is the dream role for an executive producer, I guess.
Matthew 22:24
And I guess, with them on board, as you say, when you ring up David Beckham or Messi or Suarez, or whoever, I guess, and tell them you're making a Neymar doc., I guess they say yes. No questions asked, isn't it?
David Charles Rodrigues 22:40
Between them and Neymar, you know, that was very helpful. And I would love to mention also, this was a co-production with Campfire, you know, they've been doing a great work for Netflix and other streamers in the doc. space. And my producer Cecilia and Ross Girard and Ross Dinerstein also, you know, did everything they could humanly possibly do. And, obviously, you know, in the post-production side, Make Make and Angus Wall, and Will Z, were able to, you know, get our 1000s of hours of footage and shape it into something that, you know, I'm quite proud of to be honest.
Matthew 23:15
Well, I definitely think you should be, and while we're still talking tangentially about basketball, I think another element there you're talking about this sort of coming-of-age story in essence, is the - we talked about Covid, we talked about things then, but Kobe Bryant's untimely death seems to have had a big, big - at least this way it looks to me while watching it that that had a big impact on Neymar. Is that fair enough to say?
David Charles Rodrigues 23:49
Yeah, I mean, you brought up something that I didn't really know about Neymar, which I love because I'm a basketball fan, as a player. You know, he's all - wearing those jerseys is what he does, it's totally unprompted; has nothing - even when the camera was off, he was, you know, doing that. That's his thing. He really loves basketball and the players, and is friends with many of them, and he had worked with Kobe before. They weren't close friends, but Kobe and Jordan are actually, I think even more than Pele, are really his benchmarks and his inspiration, you know of what modern competitiveness means, and about what it [inaudible] to be at the highest level; you know, and obviously Messi, I guess, right. I would put Messi, Kobe and Jordan as probably the top three main influences for Neymar, and I think, you know, we were all together in Paris filming when the tragedy happened and Kobe passed away, and that was really the - I don't want to say the start but, like, the moment that I saw the greatest shift in him [inaudible] in his own mortality, and also realizing that, you know, he is a full adult, and he has to take the reins of his own life, and really give his best in every way he can to leave a legacy behind and to be able to accomplish the things that he first set out on doing, you know, and, you know, whenever someone that you admire or someone that inspires you passes away and is young, and in such a tragic way...
Matthew 25:34
Yeah.
David Charles Rodrigues 25:35
... you kind of feel this spiritual obligation of doing your best to keep them alive, right; to keep their way of doing things alive. And I feel like that was really felt during that time. And, yeah, it was really emotional. I mean, we were - there's a lot of stuff that we weren't even able to film because it was a very emotional moment.
Matthew 26:03
I mean, talking about these, you do - and, but, at the same time, we do see all these, these moments with Neymar. And he opens up his life to us. I mean, obviously, you had editorial control. But what input did Neymar have to telling his story? I mean, I liked the beginning. He says, Well, how do you want it to begin? And I think at the end, you're saying, Well, is this the way it's going to end? I mean, it's kind of interesting. He's - as you say, he's buying into what this is really about. But at the same time, you don't pull any punches. I mean, you show all the stuff. You show the fact that people were calling him a monster, we've got the whole, you know, it's known as, you know, people have criticized him for a lot of things he said. We haven't really talked too much about it, about the controversy, but there's certainly been a lot of controversy that's followed Neymar over the years. So, how was that relationship? Did he and his dad ever try to... Well, there's always a little bit of a pushing back from the subjects, but how was that relationship?
David Charles Rodrigues 27:07
It was really good. Obviously, there were moments that, you know, I had to work on helping them, you know, have a leap of faith and really trust in process, in my process. I think through our time together, he understood that he really needed to give me everything, so I could tell the best story possible. You know, I always made it clear - and this is what I do with every project is, you know, the boss or the final cut, for me personally is the best film, you know, it's the best story, it's the best way to convey a message or someone's, you know, journey on screen. And I believe they believed in me, you know, they really believe that that was the boss, that was my ulterior motive wasn't, you know, pointing fingers or being, you know, sensationalist; it was literally telling the best story. And to tell the story, you have to open the wounds, you know, and you have to bear all and, I think, you know, he really did that. And it was funny, because I had interviewed him a bunch in several parts of his house. Unfortunately, he's so famous, he can't go out, you know, like, it's very hard; like, the security detailing, and, like, for him to go, just go have dinner, it's insane, you know, and to go with a crew is almost impossible. So, we had to make the most of filming him in his house, you know, which, in a way it worked out because that's where he can be his true self. And the point where I kind of had filmed everywhere, and the only place that's off limits in his house, even to the people that work with him every day is his bedroom.
Matthew 28:50
Right.
David Charles Rodrigues 28:50
It's kind of Private Idaho, it's his own universe. And I kept asking [inaudible] manager, you know, his sub-manager, right, his Father's right hand man.
Matthew 28:59
Yeah.
David Charles Rodrigues 28:59
... can we film in his room? I think it'd be really special, like, you know, where this whole intimacy, you know, getting a look into his room, you know, it will be great. And then, you know, I kept getting 'no', and 'no', and 'no', and, you know, for good or for bad, I'm kind of, you know, like a whack-a-mole. You know, I just keep popping up and then I think the guy kind of lost his patience and was, like, just ask Neymar, you know, he'll say no, and if it's no, that's it.
Matthew 29:29
Yeah.
David Charles Rodrigues 29:30
And then I went up and asked him and he was, like, Oh, yeah, sure, let's do it. And then like, five minutes later, we were in his bedroom, which had never been filmed before. We're there and, you know, his friends were watching but I just thought it would make more sense for him just to do what he always does, which is just hang out with his friends and have a candid conversation. And we talked for a couple hours, you know, and it was really special. And then at the very end, when we were wrapping up, that's when I kind of had the idea just on the spot of asking him how he would open the film. You know, and then he just [inaudible] brilliant answer, you know, and that really dictated, you know, part of the structure, you know, just that spontaneous moment. And then obviously later, in a interview months later, I asked him how he would finish it just so we could have that to be able to create that structure.
Matthew 30:18
Yeah.
David Charles Rodrigues 30:20
Yeah, it was a really special moment. Like, right, like, when he is - I mean, you see it and you see it on camera, his eyes kind of light up. And that's one thing that I realized, and I wish, you know, I don't know, if we ever film together again, I would like to explore more. He's a really creative person. In his life, he truly expresses that creativity, as a player, as an athlete.
Matthew 30:47
Yeah.
David Charles Rodrigues 30:48
And, yeah, you see glimpses of him, oh, you see glimpses of it on social media. But, you know, he's an incredible illustrator. Like, he can draw manga, like no one. And the title of the film, you know, he called me and said, Hey, I have a, I was writing all the titles, and I, you know, I found some that I thought were good, but nothing really landed yet. And he was like, would you consider 'The Perfect Chaos'? And I was like, Oh, my God, that's genius. I really was. [inaudible] I'm like, I don't think that would work. But it encapsulated the story we're trying to tell and his life. And, yeah, anyways, yeah, his creativity is something that I feel is untapped territory. And I believe that, especially once he retires, it will really start to blossom in his life.
Matthew 31:37
Well, that's very interesting. Because exactly, because this is a guy, as you say, he's not even 30, and you're telling the story of his life, but his life's not even, hopefully, not even halfway over yet. You know, it's only a third done, you know, you could be there for parts Two and Three, hopefully.
David Charles Rodrigues 31:55
Yeah, we'll see.
Matthew 31:56
We'll see. And then, I mean, what - I gather because I've looked at some trailers, this is a truly international film, isn't it? Because it's all in Portuguese, and Spanish, and French. And for us English speakers, it's - and there's a bit of English, obviously, with David Beckham and others, but for most of us - us English speakers - we're hearing it dubbed but for everyone out there - those others it's releasing in the original languages, isn't it. For Brazilian audiences and stuff like that?
David Charles Rodrigues 32:33
Yeah, I mean, you know, what people don't realize in America, and I hope they do while watching this is that football is the most global sport ever. Maybe the most global form of entertainment, you know? And Neymar is that person. I think even Netflix, like, you know, it's already you know, getting insane traction, you know, on Twitter and on Netflix, you see, I don't have the numbers yet, but just by looking through Twitter, you - and through the media reports - you can see that it's literally everywhere, you know, like everywhere in the world, they're all watching this story. And it is a truly global story. And, you know, that's what I really love about Netflix is, you know, whether it's through Squid Game or other properties, that they are able to bring different cultures and different languages and very unique stories to everyone, you know, especially to America. You know, I remember, in Brazil, you know, I would literally go three times a week at least to like this little art house theater, in my hometown and I would watch films from every single country, you know, because they would get all kinds of films and in America that's just not the case. It's very closed off, you know, up until Netflix. I really think that Netflix paved the way and now a bunch of other people are following suit to doing that.
Matthew 34:02
Or when I was growing up in the states you either had to live in a college town or in certain big cities and you knew the art house, you know, theater that would show these things but otherwise, yes, you would never have a clue that all this was out there, so, I think that's a very good point. No, well, hat tip to Netflix certainly for that. I mean, I think we're coming to - Well, I mean, maybe, like, one last thing. I mean, obvious question, but you grew up in Brazil. What does Neymar mean to Brazil?
David Charles Rodrigues 34:44
Neymar is a symbol of the divisiveness that Brazil is going through that's very similar to America. Tonho, being the famous, you know, musician has a great quote that's 'being successful in Brazil is a personal offense'. And I feel like, unfortunately, Neymar gets a lot of that from people. But at the same time, he also inspires millions of people there, that it's possible. You know, like, his father likes to call him 'the possible hero'. And I think that he is true [inaudible] to many people.
Matthew 35:17
It's interesting, because there's a, I think it's on Netflix as well, there's a Pele documentary. And...
David Charles Rodrigues 35:24
There is, yeah.
Matthew 35:24
... yeah. And I think he went through some similar; I mean, different time period, but, you know, being - what's also the sort of the things you hear about Michael Jordan sometimes, you know, he wasn't outspoken enough, he didn't take sides or whatever. And it's, I guess, it's a difficult place to be if you're the hero of a country. David, I mean, more in terms of your own, yourself and your career. I think you've mentioned already, you've got this extensive commercial success; literally, commercial success. How did you move into documentaries? That's relatively recent, isn't it?
David Charles Rodrigues 36:05
Yeah, well, I want to say, since 2014. So...
Matthew 36:10
Yeah.
David Charles Rodrigues 36:10
You know...
Matthew 36:11
It's been a while. Yeah.
David Charles Rodrigues 36:13
... not that long. But, you know, it's really about storytelling and filmmaking. My first creative job ever was as a comic book writer. And then because I grew up, you know, lower middle class, and, you know, quite poor, I had to make a living. And then I learned that you could make a living and be creative in advertising. And I just kind of stumbled in to that career. And it just, you know, really helped me in my whole life. And - but my goal, since the very beginning was to make films, you know, I mean, you know, I've been going to film festivals, and binging, you know, movies, you know, since I was literally - you know, I tell this story, when I was 12 years old, it was one of the worst economic crisis in Brazil, and, you know, as my summer vacation, and, you know, we couldn't afford to go anywhere, or do anything. But my mother, God bless her soul, gave me a video membership card to a video club that was on the same block house, and I didn't have to cross the streets, so I couldn’t walk there. And I would watch, and it had a limit of five films a day. And I watched five films a day, for three months straight. And that was my first film school, you know. Yeah, and so for me, it's really, it's very corny and cliche to say this, but I'm really living my dream. And, I think I found the documentary form. I think, what's happened today, and you see it at Sundance, for example. I think the indies [inaudible] of the 90s has become what documentary filmmaking is now, you know, the most exciting, most interesting, most daring films, hold in the independent space are documentaries. And I feel like, kind of inadvertently, that's how I fell into that. First by, you know, I made this film Mythical Creatures, which was part of the Sundance New Frontier program. And then Gay Chorus Deep South, you know, that's really when I fully found my voice as a filmmaker, and I tried to really bring that experience into Neymar. And really just bring the heart and soul of telling a human story, which is kind of what I feel most comfortable doing, and what I love doing the best.
Matthew 36:41
Hey, and, you know, let's face it, some of the legends of this business also did advertising. You're not, you won't be the first one to have gone that route. So, well done. And what's next for you?
David Charles Rodrigues 38:58
Yeah, I have two projects right now that I'm attached to one where we shot some stuff, and we're about to go into full production. It's about social media addiction. And I'm doing it with Jigsaw. I can't say much more about it, but it's a very exciting and important for the times we're living in right now. And then another one that I'm super excited about, and we're in the process of pitching it, is the, you know, we're doing a film about the dynasty of the Golden State Warriors. And I'm doing that, Slam magazine and Mandalay, who did The Last Dance.
Matthew 39:41
Wow.
David Charles Rodrigues 39:41
Hopefully we start shooting [inaudible] But I'm very excited about that. You know, as a basketball fan.
Matthew 39:47
And is there some Last Dance type footage that's out there? Is that what - can you say?
David Charles Rodrigues 39:55
Yeah.
Matthew 39:56
Excellent. Wow, that could be - well, I think you, I think you're going to be busy. I think you're also going to be successful. So, well done and congratulations and just want to say thank you. Thanks so much for coming on to Factual America. It's been a pleasure having you on. And just remind people, our listeners and watchers that we've been talking with award winning director David Charles Rodrigues. The film is - well docu-series, actually - is Neymar: The Perfect Chaos, out now on Netflix. Check it out. I'd like to give a shout out to Sam and Joe Graves at Innersound Audio in Escrick, England in deepest, darkest Yorkshire. A big thanks to Nevena Paunovic, podcast manager at Alamo Pictures, who ensures we continue getting great guests onto the show. And finally, a big thanks to our listeners. As always, we love to hear from you. So, please keep sending us feedback and episode ideas. You can reach out to us on YouTube, social media, or directly by going to our website, www.factualamerica.com and clicking on the Get in Touch link. And as always, please remember to like us, and share us with your friends and family, wherever you happen to listen or watch podcasts. This is Factual America signing off.
Factual America Outro 41:12
You've been listening to Factual America. This podcast is produced by Alamo Pictures specializing in documentaries, television, and shorts about the USA for international audiences. Head on down to the show notes for more information about today's episode, our guests, and the team behind the podcast. Subscribe to our mailing list or follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter @alamopictures. Be the first to hear about new productions, festivals showing our films, and to connect with our team. Our homepage is alamopictures.co.uk