Natalie Wood: Cinema Icon

Factual America

2 Jun

Written By

Natalie Wood was an iconic American actress, featuring in many influential Hollywood movies in the 1950s, 60s, and 70s. Her life was tragically cut short when she drowned at the age of 43.

Today we talk with Laurent Bouzereau, the director and producer of the recently released HBO documentary Natalie Wood: What Remains Behind (2020). The film explores Natalie's life and career through the unique perspective of her daughter, Natasha Gregson Wagner, and others who knew her best.

Had she lived, Natalie Wood would have undoubtedly become one of the most influential Hollywood figures of our time.

The impact she left on the industry she loved so much is nothing short of remarkable. She was an incredible woman, glamorous and relatable, who was ahead of her time, and tragically died far too young.

“If you don’t like Natalie Wood, you don’t like cinema. If you don’t know Natalie Wood, you don’t know cinema.” - Laurent Bouzereau

Time Stamps:

02:48 - Introduction to the film 'Natalie Wood: What Remains Behind'.
03:20 - Meeting our guest, the director Laurent Bouzereau.
04:44 - Who Natalie Wood was, and the autobiographical nature of her films.
09:55 - How well her films have aged.
11:46 - How Natalie still influences people today.
14:04 - How she helped Robert Redford’s career take off.
17:43 - Why it doesn’t matter that Natalie never won an Oscar.
19:57 - Our first clip from the film, showing how Natalie got to choose some of her roles.
21:31 - Reflecting on how relatable and ‘normal’ Natalie’s personal life was.
27:50 - The love Natalie had for her work.
33:26 - Our second clip of the film, showing how normal Natalie’s home life was.
34:47 - Why this movie matters today.
39:23 - How Laurent got involved with the project and the hardships he encountered.
47:55 - The controversies that surrounded Natalie’s death.
49:41 - The theme of ‘triumph over loss’ in the film.
51:59 - The reason why Laurent was never seen as an outsider in the US.
55:46 - The new projects Laurent is now focusing on.

Resources:

Natalie Wood: What Remains Behind
Brainstorm
Actor Robert Redford
Alamo Pictures

Transcript for Factual America Episode 16 - Natalie Wood: Cinema Icon

0:00
Hello, I'm Laurent Bouzereau, the director and producer of "Natalie Wood: What Remains Behind".

0:07
The day my mom died my entire world was shattered. Since then, there's been so much focus on how she died that it's overshadowed who she was as a person. I am Natasha Gregson Wagner and my mom was Natalie Wood.

0:27
Natalie Wood falls into the category of an icon.

0:31
She's like this mythology character.

0:34
She had a big heart. And that showed up in her work.

0:37
I've enjoyed the part where you act. Not the stardom that follows.

0:42
The studio system controlled everything in her life.

0:47
She wanted to have control over the choices.

0:49
I did get the right to choose West Side Story.

0:52
She was one of the few women that had that power.

0:55
My mom had a string of relationships.

0:58
R.J. was the love of her life. It was like two parts of the same whole.

1:03
Nat and RJ were both major stars.

1:06
Natalie and I got married in Paradise Cove. We got a boat together and spent most weekends in Catalina. That night I went below and she wasn't there.

1:21
Natalie was gone.

1:23
We've stayed connected through all of it. What do we think about reopening this case?

1:30
I don't think there's a day that has ever gone by that I haven't thought about Natalie.

1:36
I'm an actress and a wife, a mother.

1:40
She was larger than life. Not because she was famous. That was just her.

1:44
Her vulnerabilities, passion, strength and intelligence... All of that is there.

2:02
That is the trailer for the recently released HBO documentary "Natalie Wood: What Remains Behind" available on HBO NOW, HBO GO and on demand. And this is Factual America.

2:15
Factual America is produced by Alamo pictures, a production company specializing in documentaries, television and shorts about the USA for an international audience. I'm your host Matthew Sherwood and every week we look at America through the lens of documentary filmmaking by interviewing filmmakers and experts on the American experience. Subscribe to our mailing list or follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter at Alamo pictures, to be the first to hear about new productions, find out where you can see our films and to connect with our team.

2:48
"Natalie Wood: What Remains Behind" is a compelling look at Hollywood in the 1950s, 60s and 70s and the life of a true American film icon Natalie Wood, whose life was tragically cut short. "Ultimately, the film is about one family's triumphs, its tragedies, and its triumph over tragedy", explains the award winning filmmaker and New York Times bestselling author Laurent Bouzereau. Factual America recently caught up with Laurent from his home in California.

3:19
Laurent Bouzereau, Welcome to Factual America.

3:22
Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled.

3:24
Yes. How are you doing? How are things in California?

3:27
Well, things are the same way they are all over the world at the moment, you know, it's been a very sad and and sort of stressful, you know, but trying to stay busy and trying to stay optimistic.

3:42
Well, I think it is unfortunate, this is the great leveler, isn't it? We're all in the same boat around the world it seems. And what time is it in California?

3:51
It is 7.15 in the morning, so talk to loud to wake me up.

3:55
So, I hope you have a big pot of coffee or whatever you like to have in the morning. And thank you so much for getting up so early and joining us here at Factual America, it's very much appreciated.

4:08
No, I appreciate that as well. Thank you.

4:11
So, our listeners and viewers well have heard and seen the trailer, the film is "Natalie Wood: What Remains Behind" Now, I mean, it may seem a little odd for you and certainly does for me to ask this question. But, you know, she passed away nearly 40 years ago now. I think that probably half of our listeners may not have even been alive yet when when that happened and may not even really know who she is. So, if you don't mind, tell us who was Natalie Wood?

4:44
Well, you know, it's interesting, you're mentioning that a lot of people don't know who she is. And that was actually one of the reasons why I wanted to make this film. But, you know, for me, she was emblematic of so many things. She started her career as an actress as a, as a kid when she was five or six years old. And and was in a very iconic movie called "Miracle on 34th Street". And people who discovered that movie when they were kids, you know, literally grew up with her. And that's very unique, you know, in film history that basically, you know, you're a child and you see a child actor on the screen and you fall in love with that actor and then suddenly you you really follow the trajectory. Not only in cinema, but in her life and people really like identified with her. And so when she got married, it was a big thing, a big deal you know, when she got married to Robert Wagner. And and of course she was in "Rebel Without a Cause" with James Dean and "West Side Story" and "Splendour in the grass" and sadly you know, passed away of a tragic accident. And I think that when she passed away a lot of people felt they had lost you know, a soulmate, someone they had grown up with and and someone they looked up to and very courageous actor. Someone who I discovered, you know, had actually a choice of films she wanted to do, not her entire career but at one point she rebelled against the system and said you know, I don't want to be this this actor who is imposed movies upon and I want to be able to select my own films and that's how she was able to, to choose you know, "West Side Story". And, and so therefore when you know that you start looking at her films in a complete different light. You see them as autobiographical almost or as movies with with themes that spoke about what she believed in and who she was, you know? So, um, I would say she's pretty unique actress from her generation. Where you line up all the movies she was able to do during her very short life, that because she started so early when she was very, very young, you sort of get a view over the Hollywood over the history of Hollywood. You see the Hollywood system at its max, you know, and you see it getting looser and looser. And then you see her working with directors like Paul Mazursky or Sydney Pollack who are just starting their careers. And you see like the New Hollywood, they're no longer filming in what is really and obviously a set. You see them filming on the streets of New York for example, like in "Love with the Proper Stranger". It's in black&white in New York 60s and you know, people in the streets are looking into the camera. It's like the New Hollywood, you know, and her last movie arguably "Brainstorm" directed by Douglas Trumbull, it was his second movie as a director, but he was and still is, you know, a visual effects genius who had worked on "2001" and "Close encounters" and "Blade Runner". And and that movie was, you know, about virtual reality. So when she passed away she was, again ahead of the curve working with someone exploring things that we are sort of experiencing today, which is VR. So it's interesting looking at her, and I hope that young people who don't know who she is, after seeing the documentary will be curious about watching her films because you learn so much, not only about who she is as a person, as I said, but about the evolution of, of cinema in the context of Hollywood.

9:15
I mean, I think that's a very good point. You've, you've already touched on a number of things I wanted to, to address and ask you about. But you know, she lived this big life in front of everyone's eyes from the time she was three or four years old. And she was a member of what I would call Hollywood royalty. I mean, the images in your film are amazing. The people that are not just alluded to, the people you get on camera even. But in these iconic films, and I think for someone of my age, I'm about the same age as I think her children. You know, these films from the 60s they were I mean, even after "West Side Story", they're, they're pushing boundaries. These are some, you know, they're not even old for, they've weathered quite well.

9:54
Oh, absolutely. I mean, I mean, I think that, I'll argue that films of the 70s, and and the 60s have aged better than films of the 80s. And that's across the board, not not just in America, you know. And so when you see a movie like "Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice", you know, they're doing a play on Broadway based on that right now. So she was again, you know, like doing something that still feels, you know, relevant and, you know, even as a person, her her friend and confidant, who sadly passed away a week before...

10:41
...we went into into this situation with COVID, Mart Crowley. She, she facilitated for him to write this play "The Boys in the Band", which was a benchmark for, you know, not only theater, but gay culture, LGBTQ issues. And that was revived on Broadway last year to incredible success, and is now going to be a new film on Netflix because it was directed by William Friedkin originally. And so not that she was a producer on on the original play or film, but she is the one who nurtured Mart Crowley and allowed him to, to explore and exploit his creativity and ultimately, that's what came out of it. And it's a benchmark. So it's interesting how the sort of Natalie Wood, you know, movement still ripple today, even though we may not even be aware of it, you know. But without her, there would be potentially no Mart Crowley play "Boys in the Band", you know. So there's a lot to be grateful for her loyalties and her friendships and how she really, you know, because as a child, she was forced into acting, I think that there was a sense, and we talked about the accident that she had on one of the movies when she was a kid and injured her wrist bone, and hence why she always wore a bracelet in every, all the time. You, you get a sense that she was a real nurturer of people. She was very protective. And when she was working with other kids in a movie, she was extremely conscious of protecting them. And when she worked with other actors, I mean, there is this funny story on the "West Side Story" when, when she got on to the picture, they had been rehearsing already the film, she got in kind of late. And they were rehearsing on stages that didn't have air conditioning. And I mean, if you can imagine rehearsing on a soundstage dance numbers with, you know, many dancers, that was extremely painful and and the second she got in and they said - We don't have air conditioning, she made one phone call and everybody had had air conditioning. And it kind of became obvious to everyone. If you want anything, you just go to Natalie, and she'll make that happen, you know?

10:41
I saw that.

13:40
Yeah, I think I mean, if this gets this point, I mean, I feel like she was a woman ahead of her time. I think your film captures that and how she's think the term empowered was used and someone else mentioned, the only woman who could get a film made probably at that time, within reason, you know, given the constraints. But you were telling about this loyalty, she even got Robert Redford's career launched, didn't she?

14:03
Yeah, I mean, I mean, you know, she, it's interesting with Redford. You know, he was already on Broadway you know, "Barefoot in the Park" and but she gave him a chance, you know, to be on the big screen with "Inside Daisy Clover" playing a gay character of all things, um, which was even more kind of daring, you know for the time. And also, "This Property is Condemned" where I mean that that was a revelation to me because that's not a movie that I had seen before. Um, shame on me, but I discovered it in the process of making this film. And I was just blown away. I think the ending is, it wraps up a little too fast for my taste, but the rest of the movie is spectacular. It's almost like her "Streetcar Named Desire" type of performance. And of course, you know, "A property" is based on Tennessee Williams. But, I I just think that she really had a knack at at discovering people. And I think I think Redford in so many ways, you know, is almost a male equivalent of her in that not only is he this spectacular actor, but um, but he is, he became filmmaker himself. He's a producer, he created Sundance. And and there she was, a woman even though not necessarily entitled, she was a producer, you know and she had a production company with Robert Wagner. They developed, you know, "Charlie's Angels". I mean, you know, there's a lot of interesting things about her that she was doing that no one else was doing. And I think they were kind of kindred spirits, her and Redford. And and you know, after she launched his career, he did "Downhill Racer", which was produced by her then husband, Richard Gregson. And and Gregson and Redford started a production company together which literally, you know, launched him to become the Redford that we know. But had she lived, I would say she would have been a director, she would have been a producer today she would have a series on Netflix or on HBO. She would be working with Tarantino and Spielberg and and that's where, you know, you get very nostalgic about her you feel like you were robbed of an incredible talent and someone who had such incredible instinct with material, and and took chances at a time where it was very daring for performers, especially as you get older. And Mia Farrow talks about that, you know, how difficult it was then for for women, and I think still to this day, you know, to find a really powerful roles once you, you get to be over 40, you know.

14:38
I think, I think, hold that thought because I think well, I would like to talk more about the the choices that certainly female actors face. But I agree, if I think, if she lived, it's not about mantles, you know, statues on the mantelpiece, but in some form or fashion, she would have won an Oscar or two, I'm sure.

17:41
Oh, yeah. No, I mean, no, I mean, you know, she was nominated by the age of 25, you know, for three, she for three movies, you know. So, um, it is sad that she never got to, to win one, but, you know, I I'm one of those persons, you know who really do not judge people by by their awards. I mean, Hitchcock never won an Oscar. His films, but um, Hitchcock never won an Oscar and he's arguably, you know, one of my all time favorites and and you know, it took a while for Steven Spielberg to win Oscar and Scorsese and Brian De Palma who I admired, you know, never got nominated and, you know, this, we all know. All those awards are extremely protocol and so I, I don't think that's necessarily a goal. You know, what is harder than winning an Oscar is longevity and how much talent is able to endure a long career, a career during which you reinvent yourself. You take chances and you start addressing yourself not necessarily to the generation who knows you but to the next generation. That's the hardest thing to do. Whether you are Natalie Wood, or a director or anybody in the business, you know, is how do you stay relevant? I mean, I, myself, you know, struggle with that, you know, because I started doing documentaries in my, in my early early 30s, you know. And and I'm, how do I maintain, you know, a fresh outlook on the work I do as a filmmaker? And how do I transition maybe even to narrative films. So I'm not comparing myself to those great people, but it is, you know, it doesn't matter what level you're at, you know, it's more important for me to stay relevant and have a career than to win an award, you know.

19:57
She was owned by the studio, and she didn't want to be owned. She wanted to have control over the choices. I mean, if she's gonna spend three months doing a film, she wants to believe in it. So she took on Jack Warner and told him, I'm going to go on strike because I don't like the roles that you're choosing for me.

20:15
The suspension lasted about 18 months, so that the punishment was that if you wouldn't work for them, you couldn't work anywhere else, either. It wasn't that I was trying to get more money. That really wasn't it at all. But what I eventually did get the right to do was the right to choose one picture a year that, you know, was my choice. The first one that I was able to choose was "West Side Story".

20:39
So we're talking about, you know, Natalie, and this, you know, this, this, how she was ahead of her time and she's this empowered woman and all these things she did achieve and probably would have achieved if she had, if her life hadn't been so tragically cut short. But yet, you know, there's this this period in her life where she she meets Robert Wagner for the second time they get remarried. And they have, I mean what struck me was, what such a normal family life they had their on on Canon Drive in Beverly Hills, I think it was. I mean the house looks like it could be anywhere in America suburbia. I wouldn't have guessed that was Beverly Hills. And all the pictures and footage that you have, I imagine a lot of its family footage, is amazing. These these birthday parties and things, it just seemed everything seems so, I hate to put it this way, seems so normal.

21:31
Well, I tell you, that was another reason why I really wanted to make this movie and that gets me emotional because, you know, I'm very very close to my family. Some of them live actually in in London and in Paris. And, you know, when I was approached to do this film, and I was shown those personal photos and the home movies that even some of them had never been processed before, they found that in storage. I related to that story in a very personal kind of way. And that was sort of like the indication for me that even if you don't know who Natalie Wood is, you will relate to the family's story. And what is it to have, you know, this beautiful, perfect family, the triumph, the loss and ultimately triumph over loss, you know, but the thing that I mean, you use the word normal, you know, it's, I mean, more than normal, it's relatable for me, you know, and and because, you know, they were obviously very well off. And, and...

22:49
It's not everyday you have Fred Astaire for one of your partners.

22:52
Yeah, exactly. But you know, I just loved the way that, and you know, I experienced that firsthand. With with them, you know, when I met Robert Wagner, you know, obviously I'm, you know, hate that word, but I'm a fan, you know. One of the first movies I saw as a kid that, that I would say, traumatized me but at the same time, made me want to make movies with the Towering Inferno, and he is in the Towering Inferno and that was the first movie poster I ever bought that I had in my bedroom, you know, which I still have, I want to mention. And there is Robert Wagner and he has one of the most spectacular scenes in the film and and anyway, so I get to meet him you know, and I'm realizing that there is that, you know, in addition to him being this big star, you know, there's, we're going to be talking about the loss of Natalie and all that and this is just a casual conversation I'm having with him at the very very beginning. And immediately I just felt I was talking to a family member, a member of my family. I got the feeling I was talking to a member of my family and he was just so warm and so casual and normal and he had his dog Max who's passed away since, since we first met. And we just bonded immediately. And I imagine that Natalie was the same way you know, the sort of like. And and you know, he's the guy that if he finds out you have a cold, he'll call you, he said okay, I have the best doctor in Beverly Hills, I'm sending him over. He, I mean, unbelievably kind and generous and and genuine. And I remember we went to his house in in Aspen and I want to show you the kitchen because Jill, my wife, you know, collects all those pots and, and and for friends and I want to show you. And he takes us to the kitchen and Jill says "Why are you taking them to the kitchen, it's not clean enough, I didn't do the dishes, and the maid wasn't here...". And I want to show them the kitchen, you know? And so I mean, it's, it's just so crazy. And there I am, I'm pinching myself, I'm like, wait a minute, I'm with RJ Wagner, you know, and, and, and there's, you know, this normality that you feel then is accessible. And to your point about that, it was really important for me that, I think that in that film that I didn't want it to feel like this old dusty Hollywood Story, you know. Where the stars are so far in the sky, they're not reachable and and it's like this aristocracy that you could only dream of being part of. And, no, they were normal. I mean, she didn't always wear makeup and she went to the supermarket like everybody else, you know. And, and I think again, you know, you find that theme of someone who, you know, could put it on for the cameras and the photographers when she went to a premiere or an award show, but also could be that totally real person, you know, who was in touch with psychology and psychiatry and the importance of mental health. And, and, and that came with, with her wanting to nurture people and help them through hard times, whether it was financially or psychologically, you know. And, and that feels very real to me. And again, you know, it's like, in a way I feel the film de-mystifies, the Hollywood star image that we would get if we were doing a documentary about anyone else of our generation, you know. When you feel like, this is just not a normal life, you know, this feels completely unattainable. That felt real. That felt like I could relate to those people. And, and, again, the fact that they were movie stars felt like second to the fact that they were real human beings, you know.

23:40
And so, it's at this, you know, these certainly in the 1970s. So, did she make a choice? Or, because certainly her career slowed down, and she's concentrating on her family. I mean, is this a choice that really, or was it, did she really had control over that choice?

27:51
Um, you know, that was definitely a choice. And at the same time, it became a dilemma. Because, you know, it's very clear in the film that that when she did "Rebel Without a Cause" she fell in love, really with her profession, with acting. I think that was the first movie that she really fought for, that, you know, that became a benchmark not only in terms of cinema, but in terms of her own love for, for the art form of acting. And and it's interesting, you know, because she is someone who lived the roles and she, I don't think she was Method, but I think she, she really entered that universe in a very intense way. To the point of falling in love with the director, you know, Nic Ray which is a whole other controversy but not to be addressed here. I just think that, at the same time, she was a family person, someone who had struggled in her childhood, who was robbed of her childhood, you know, by Hollywood. And I think it was super important for her to have children and to give to those children, you know, the, the childhood that she had not had. And, and I think that when she had Natasha, she became obsessed with being a mom and that became her biggest role. And we see the same dedication that she gave to "Rebel Without a Cause" and "Splendor in the Grass" and "West Side Story" to another role which is you know, that of her mom, and that type of family person. But I think that once you've fallen in love with something like cinema and and and you live in a town where there are so many opportunities, that I think it's impossible to cast that away completely. And, and to say, you know, I'm never gonna do this again. And I think that when she started meeting directors like Sydney Pollack and Paul Mazursky, and all those incredible filmmakers who, who were, and you know, the 70s in Hollywood, I mean, come on. I mean, it's the most exciting time ever, you know, you have Steven Spielberg and George Lucas and Scorsese and Brian De Palma, Peter Bogdanovich and John Milius and I mean all the filmmakers that that I mean really forged the next step in cinema worldwide, you know, making all those incredible films. And you have also actors emerging from those times. And I can't imagine being an actor, you know, and going, like, I'm just gonna move on, you know. And, and so she couldn't. And then, you know, ultimately when she met Chris Walken on "Brainstorm", who is arguably, you know, one of the greats and and someone who is coming off of "Deer Hunter" and, and and reinventing a new language in terms of acting, you know. The dilemma really presented itself where it's the first time in several years where she is working and RJ is working. And one could argue that the family unit is sort of broken. The kids are not with their mom, while RJ is filming and they're not with their daddy either, and that's the first time it's happened. And and so, you know, she is really weighing out that equation, you know, what is more important and how do I make both of those things work. And I think that when faced with someone like Chris Walken who is such a powerful actor, you know, you're even more justified in wanting to to continue your career. So, sadly when she died, I think she was unresolved on that, on making that work, but I think she would have made it work. And, and I think that RJ and her would have found a way to make it work. And also the kids were getting a little older, you know, I mean, not Courtney, so much, but Natasha. And I think Natasha would have been maybe, you know, as she became a nurturer of her own sister, you know. There was Katie also and and I want to believe they would have made it work. But it was definitely a very, very difficult time for her. Only because she was an emotional and caring person, you know. those decisions may have been easier for other people who didn't care, you know, but she cared.

33:27
I always knew that she was an actor. But you know, around the house, my mom didn't wear a lot of makeup and she was very casual. So I would look at her and think, what is, what's the big deal about you, lady, but then she and my stepdad would get dressed up and they would go out to dinner or something and she was amazing looking. But we weren't raised by someone who seemed like a movie star at all. All she just seemed was sort of larger than life but not because she was famous more because she was just her.

34:01
You're listening to Factual America. Subscribe to our mailing list or follow us on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter at Alamo pictures to keep up to date with new releases or upcoming shows. Check out the show notes to learn more about the program, our guests and the team behind the production. Now back to Factual America.

34:20
Welcome back to Factual America. We're with Laurent Bouzereau, who's the director of "Natalie Wood: What Remains Behind". We've been talking a lot about Natalie Wood, the life that she's lead. And I think I wanted at this point maybe ask you a question Laurent. You know, it's been said that what distinguishes your work, your docs is their tutorial zeal. He wants you to know why a movie matters. So why does this movie matter?

34:48
Well, you know, as a documentary filmmaker, you know or as a filmmaker, period, you know, you constantly want to discover things, you know. And, and so from a really selfish personal perspective, you know, this is something that came to me and I, and sort of revealed itself. And I just felt - wow, there is a challenge here to tell a story that I wasn't completely aware of, of course, I knew the films of Natalie Wood but I, I just felt compelled to, to tell that story in a way that was non chronological, that was thematic, I wanted to break the form. I wanted to bring different styles of, of filming even interviews. And I'll open a little, little thing here like a lot of people refer to interviews as "talking heads". And I think that's the most insulting thing you could tell anyone, let alone someone who does documentaries because I would call them close ups, you know, and sometimes extreme close ups. Because those interviews that I did for that movie were extremely hard, I had to be extremely well prepared. And I would say that of my 28 years of doing this type of work, I have never been so moved and so challenged on interviewing people because it, you know, it's one thing to talk about the happy part, but it's something else to lead up to the loss. And whether it was with friends or the family, you know, as a filmmaker, I know that I need to get a certain performance so to speak, even though it's not manufactured or scripted. But at the same time, I want to be respectful of the emotions and and that was extremely hard and and I would find myself in tears literally asking those questions and we would all cry together. And it was, it was really tough. And as I was filming, I just felt the importance of the film being underlined, you know, by, by my emotions and by by what I was feeling. And I was channeling literally, you know, what those people were feeling. And I've stayed friends, you know, with most of them or in touch, you know, which, again, you know, like, when you're just meeting someone for an interview for a couple of hours, you know, you don't expect to form a friendship necessarily. And, and, and I have, so I really hope that again, you know, that the viewers are feeling that sort of journey that I'm having. And so, so so that felt important because I think that we need emotional stories of family and we need to demystify maybe the stories of Hollywood, um, and I felt I could do that with that particular story, you know. It wouldn't be the same if I was doing you know, a number of other actors of that generation, you know. Not to diminish them in the face of Natalie, but it didn't have the same arc, you know. And so, so that's why it felt important. And, and it felt also, you know, with the me too movement and the importance of the LGBTQ community and dialogue over that, that Natalie was tapped into all those themes that are very, very much at the forefront of what we're discussing today. And I'm like, how beautiful to be able to, to show her as a pioneer of those themes and those issues in her time, at a time where it was even more difficult to have those discussions, you know. And I hope that in one way, you know, I've opened up a little window into, into that aspect of who she was, aside from being this, you know, amazing actress.

39:04
I mean, personally, I'll just say I never expected to see Robert Wagner sort of break down and cry on on camera and it was like watching my own father really crying to be honest. I mean, how did you get involved with the project? You know, was this your idea? Or how did this, how did you get to this point?

39:23
No, actually, this project was not my idea. I've, I've been in touch and I've had a friendship with this gentleman named Manoah Bowman who is an archivist and writer of Hollywood. And so he's helped me with a number of projects in the past when I need photos and he knows where all the photos are buried. And and he's quite a, an incredible resource and, and he called me two and a half years ago and he said, "Listen, I just finished this beautiful coffee table book on Natalie Wood and I want to send you a copy." And in the midst of doing the book I discovered home movies and, and personal photos we couldn't put obviously home movies in the in, in the book but we couldn't put all the photos. We found an article that Natalie had written and we just show a couple of excerpts in the book. And I kind of think that could be a documentary made about Natalie Wood, can you recommend a filmmaker? I said "Dude, why? What about me?" And he said I didn't want to assume you like Natalie Wood. And I said "Are you kidding?" I said to him, I remember I said, you know, "if you don't like Natalie Wood, you don't like cinema. If you don't know Natalie Wood, uh, you don't know cinema". So, on that, he said, well, let me introduce you to the family because that would be the make or break, you know, of the project. So we had lunch with Natasha and I immediately, and he said to me about Natasha, he said - you're not going to think she looks like her mom, but as you talk to her, she's going to morph into Natalie Wood. And that's exactly what happened. And it's, it's actually kind of a surreal experience, you know, to, to sit across from Natasha and suddenly feeling like you're talking to Natalie Wood. And Natasha was so real and so straightforward. Generous and yet tough, you know? And, just, very empowering, you know, that she said, you know, I really like you. I, I think, you know, you could tell a great story, and she started telling me about her family, the challenges, you know, that the film would, could represent. And I was on board. So, I've had a relationship with Steven Spielberg for 28 years and and Amblin and so I always go to them first when I get proposed anything. And so I went to Amblin television and I said, listen, you know, there's this incredible project, what do you think? And so they met with Natasha and, and immediately we all decided to form this little family of, of the Natalie Wood clan, you know. And, and, and together Amblin television and Manoah and and Natasha and myself, went around town pitching the film. And it was, um, I won't lie, you know, it was difficult. It was difficult for the reasons that you mentioned, a lot of people you know, that you meet in, at networks and streamers, you know, are extremely young and have zero idea who she is. And it's, it was difficult because then you have to explain why this is a story that needs to be told today. And, and why this is a story that young people will want to watch, you know, and sometimes you're convincing because people have an open mind and sometimes, you know, they're stuck with telling the story of Tiger King, you know. So, it was, it was a challenge. And luckily we pitch to HBO and I have to say, Lisa Heller and Nancy Abraham from HBO were extraordinary partners. I mean, the sort of freedom and and yet the very specific direction and and sort of collaboration we had creatively, really was like one that I had not experienced before. They were, they really challenged a lot of the things that I was doing in the most constructive way. And, and got me to, to make some adjustments and, and so on that that really made a big difference. And yet, you know, the film is completely my vision and was not, you know, the one thing that was that was potentially problematic is the feeling that the family controlled the film, and they didn't. You know, I did show the film to RJ and to everyone who participated, but none of them had approval. It was not, it was an FYI, it was not, of course, you know, if there were some mistakes made, you know, in an interview, there were a couple of people who said something and, and it happened to be the wrong facts, you know, I would, I would correct it. But, other than that, there was no, they had zero control. Even Natasha, who is a producer and arguably had a voice, you know, and during the production was more of a guide in terms of illustration, who we, you know, how do I get in touch with Mia Farrow? How do I get in touch with Redford and, and also she was on screen, you know, but in terms of the cutting room, she never came, you know. And, and that was by design. And, and you know, it wasn't a fight or anything, it was like, you know, let me make my movie, you know. So, it was, it was great and, and it was it was hard. Because, you know, I don't believe, I don't believe that you can ever be definitive, you know. And I also believe that you must have a point of view and a through line. And my editor Jason Summers used to refer to the through line versus rabbit holes. You know, like, well, how come you don't talk about this rumor or about this, I say because it's a rabbit hole. It's like it goes nowhere. And then good luck getting back into your through line, which is a story of a family, you know? So, so it was, it was never meant, I mean, my first cut was three hours long. And I was just like, I have to get it down to an hour and 45 minutes, you know. And so there were a lot of sacrifices, but it kept me honest, you know, it kept me like, compact. And, and once you're at peace with that, and you're not trying to cram in everything and the kitchen sink in there, you know, you find yourself really telling a story, you know. And, and hopefully, you know, it was, it is the film I wanted to make for, you know, hopefully, people feel that it, it succeded, you know.

46:53
Well, I mean, I highly recommend the film to our listeners. It's, and as you say, I think that was interesting point you make, because I had wondered myself, because you don't, as they would say in England, it's, you show warts and all. I mean, you know, you show everything. You didn't avoid any issues and the obvious issues and things like that. And I guess, and you had all these great, you know, amazing people that came on camera to talk about Natalie's life. I mean, did you did you consider, did you try to get Christopher Walken on?

47:24
Both Christopher Walken and Lana Wood were invited to participate and they declined, you know?

47:30
And, and I mean, and I think this is an opportunity for you to sort of, you know, I think the film's pretty, pretty straightforward, but you know, there is this all this controversy and things that surround Natalie's untimely death. I mean, what do you personally think happened that night, just that Thanksgiving weekend, 39 years ago?

47:56
What I believe is what's in the film. You know, I really do. And that's my conviction and that's that's how it is in the film.

48:06
If I would to add anything to that is that by self watching it, it's, some things that were said by Natasha especially and about what Natalie was like as a, as a mom, and how she tried to sleep and... It just, it seemed, it just, to me, it seems like it sets the record straight. Because I think it just seems so realistic that easily could have that's, that's what happened.

48:31
I hope so. You know, I mean, I think there was, there's this feeling that Natalie Wood is remembered, you know, for the way she died and not the way she lived. One thing that I want to underline is that a big decision I made is not to do an investigative, you know, type of film. I, you know, I committed to that point of view of the family, as an emotional personal story, not a detective story, you know. Because there is no case, you know. So, that's, that's my belief, and that's based on my discussions with everyone you see in the film. And, you know, that's what it is.

49:23
And I think it is, to add to that, is that, this is, this film is about her life and not her death, isn't it? You know, and and, and what and the impact it had. If it is about her death, it's about the impact it had on her family and those around her.

49:39
Yeah, I mean, again, you know, I mean, to me, you know, it's super important as, as a filmmaker to always have a thematic, you know. And I think that it is about triumph, it's about loss, and it's about triumph over loss. Ultimately, this family not only losing Natalie, but being losing her on the world stage, you know, and how do you survive this and how do you go on, you know. And I think there's a lot to be inspired by, in in the film about the notion of losing a parent, you know, and the shock that one has to, to get over eventually, you know. And and focus refocus that energy into, sorry this badly said, but I think there's something very empowering about the notion of loss in the film that I think can can help a lot of people. In fact, you know, a lot of people when we had a public screening in the, at Sundance, there's always the industry screenings, but there's also a public screening. It was interesting. There was a Q&A after the screening and it was not even questions, it was statements. From people of all ages, there was someone who was easily in their 20s to someone who was in her 90s just saying how much this is helping them cope with a loss or with their own family. And it was interesting, you know, I was like, wow, mission accomplished. That, if that's the case for everyone watching the film, I feel like we've done, we've done good.

51:23
Well, it's, it's hard to believe, I think we're coming close to, to the end of our time. I don't have my usual producer whispering in my ears telling me to wrap it up. But I wanted to ask you the last, last couple questions. You know, you're originally from from France. And this podcast is produced by a production company based in London that specializes in docs on the US. Have you found that being, well I think you've been in the US for a long time. But do you feel like an outsider's perspective has helped you in the in your work?

51:59
I'll tell you, I'll tell you my own experience with that. When I came to America, I was so in love with the American culture, with a certain type of of cinema. Like I said, I was obsessed with Steven Spielberg and Brian De Palma. And I, that American people at large, you know, whether it was within the film business because I immediately started working in the business but, or or friends that I made in New York, I was living in New York, were in awe of the fact that I knew so much about the culture that I was so assimilated to, to the, in so in tune with, with the cinema of the 70s and stuff, that I never felt like an outsider. I, in fact, I felt like I'd belong there. And I had been taken away and put in France for a few years. And then luckily I went back. I never felt like an outsider. And I never felt like I was bringing in perspective that was European or a sensibility that was European. But I do think that I had an appreciation, that I learned from, you know, the sort of school of Cahiers du Cinema of Truffaut and, who loved Hitchcock and recognize him as an auteur before, you know, many people did, especially in his, in America. That I think I was I was really pointing out to certain filmmakers, De Palma, for example. And, and Spielberg who were known as those, you know, commercial directors. For me, they were, they were, you know, real auteurs, and I was looking for connections in their work to say, you know, someone who explores similar themes and and has a unique visual language is an auteur whether it's, it's in a big blockbuster like "Close Encounters" or a small film, it doesn't matter, you know. So that's what I brought in. I think that made me maybe a little more unique and different from the sort of popcorn, you know, going audience, you know. But I feel like I was very American right away, you know, but, you know, it's interesting with age. You know, that changes. You know, I have a lot more nostalgia for Europe than I did when I first moved to America. And I do think that some of the values that I really loved in the film industry when I first started are slowly being lost and I'm not as excited, you know, about the new cinema, you know, than I was when I first discovered it. And I, I feel blessed as much as I wish I had, I was younger in many, you know, in many ways. I feel blessed that I grew up really in the 70s, which was such a formative period for cinema. And for me, and and I feel that that's a real gift.

52:05
Well, and then what about, what's next for you? I mean, in this stage of Coronavirus and COVID-19, I mean, what's, what do you have in the works?

55:46
You know, it's been an interesting time because if there's one aspect of the industry that's going to get started again fast, it's going to be the documentary genre because it doesn't require big crews. And, so I'm, I've been busy pitching. Almost since this started, I've had a pitch every other day. And because the film came out in the middle of this crisis, and it did so well, there's been a lot of interest in in my work. And so it's been a very strange, happy sad kind of time. And, and the one project that I'm very, very excited about and I, and I hope it happens is a book that Lance Black wrote, called "Mama's boy". And, and it's the story of his, of his own life with his mother who had polio and and his own story. You know, fighting for LGBTQ equality, and ultimately winning an Oscar for for "Milk". And, so, he wrote that book last summer, or the book came out last summer, I immediately optioned that and, and we've been trying to set it up as a documentary. And, and that's been an incredible gift and journey during this time because his mom had polio and that was, you know, not dissimilar to what we're going through right now. And and you look at photographs of the time, they're identical to what you're seeing today. So suddenly, there was something very relevant and again, identifiable, you know. But I'm excited about about this project. And there's several others that are coming my way that I don't want to curse the projects, and, but but it's, I don't want to jinx the project is the word I should, I should use. But, you know, it's an exciting time and I'm also developing a feature film, a narrative film called "Ghost in the Fields" based on a novel by Peter Farris, that has won all of the literary awards in France. And, it's a, it's a very small like noir thriller set in the south. And it's, it's absolutely an amazing, amazing piece of work and the script is fantastic and, and so I'm very excited about that. So fingers crossed, you know, who knows, you know, I've had many things that I've gotten, that I've been excited about that never, that never happened. And many things that have come my way and happened overnight. Natalie Wood being a good example. So you know, it's a, it's a strange business.

59:04
Well that's, I mean that's all very exciting. I mean, just to remind our listeners, the film we have been talking about and which you directed is "Natalie Wood: What Remains Behind". And, you know, we haven't, I feel bad we haven't even touched on all these other things that you've done in your, in your career, but well I'm sure we'll have, we'll have notes in the links in the show notes. I think you have the longest Wikipedia page of anyone we've had on the show so far, so the people can go there and see all the things that you've been up to over these years. And is there, is there a particular best way for people to follow you, so they can see what is next in your, on the horizon?

59:43
Yeah, I'm on Instagram, so I think it's a is: Laurent_Bouzereau. So, if you know how to spell my name, you can find me on Instagram.

59:56
Well, great stuff. It's been a pleasure having you. You know, maybe when you get one of these other projects done, we would love to have you back. It's, it's been a thrill to have you on. And I just want to give a shout out to HBO, for the screener. I've had the advantage of seeing the film a couple times now and thoroughly enjoyed it. And I just wanted to remind listeners to remember to like us and share us with your friends and family wherever you happen to listen to or watch podcast. And this is Factual America, signing off.

1:00:30
You've been listening to Factual America. This podcast is produced by Alamo pictures, specializing in documentaries, television and shorts about the USA for international audiences. Head on down to the show notes for more information about today's episode, our guests and the team behind the podcast. Subscribe to our mailing list or follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter at Alamo pictures, to be the first to hear about new productions, to find out where you can see our films and to connect with our team. Our homepage is alamopictures.co.uk

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