Oscar Nominations 2023: Three Tales from the Past and the Heart
The Martha Mitchell Effect
Martha Mitchell, wife of John Mitchell, Attorney General of the US under President Richard Nixon, was not afraid to speak ‘truth to power’. She was so influential that President Nixon would go on to say that without her, there would have been no Watergate scandal.
Despite her important role, Mitchell has, in the years since Watergate, become a forgotten figure. Co-producer of The Martha Mitchell Effect, Judith Mizrachy states that this is a result of a successful gaslighting campaign against her. The film aims to give Mitchell the credit she is due.
How Do You Measure A Year?
Jay Rosenblatt started filming conversations with his daughter, Ella, when she was just two years old. He continued to do so every year on her birthday until she turned 18. In How Do You Measure A Year? we see those conversations evolve as Ella goes from being a ‘toddler to [a] young woman’.
How Do You Measure a Year? represents Jay’s desire to learn and help Ella grow up, to empower her, and, as Jay says, help her to be herself.
Stranger at the Gate
A US Marine returns home from active service filled with hatred towards Muslims. He builds a bomb, intending to blow up his local mosque. But then, he meets the Muslims who worship there. They treat him with kindness and love. And that’s after they discover what he intended to do.
For director Joshua Seftel, Stranger at the Gate comes out of his wider The Secret Life of Muslims project, which is his attempt to counter the hatred Muslims received after 9/11. Stranger is an extraordinary story of friendship, forgiveness and reconciliation.
Joshua notes how divided people have become today but also how we can ‘build impossible bridges between each other’ so that strangers may become friends.
Time Stamps
01:45 – Matthew Sherwood introduces this week’s guests and their Oscar nominated short documentary films: The Martha Mitchell Effect, How Do You Measure A Year?, and Stranger at the Gate
04:07 – Anne Alvergue explains how she and the team behind The Martha Mitchell Effect discovered it had been nominated for an Oscar
05:13 – Debra McClutchy tells Matthew what The Martha Mitchell Effect is about
07:02 – Judith Mizrachy on why Martha Mitchell is so little known today
07:53 – Beth Levison on the ‘gaslighting’ of Martha Mitchell and why they decided to make The Martha Mitchell Effect
10:39 – The origin of the term ‘the Martha Mitchell effect’
11:21 – How The Martha Mitchell Effect came to be made and why a short format was chosen for it
17:32 – Discussing what the team found in various archives
19:23 – Support for the film – especially from women
23:05 – Greeting Jay Rosenblatt and discussing his Oscar nomination
24:18 – Jay on how special How Do You Measure A Year? Is compared to his last film, When We Were Bullies
25:19 – Jay explains what How Do You Measure A Year? is about
26:06 – Why Jay for a long time didn’t look back at the footage he shot
28:37 – Why Jay finally did watch the footage he shot
29:44 – Jay discusses the questions he asked Ella
32:56 – Jay explains why he asked Ella a question about power
34:47 – Jay’s broader intentions regarding the questions he asked Ella
37:31 – How Do You Measure A Year? as Jay’s most personal film
40:07 – What Ella thinks about How Do You Measure A Year?
41:25 – The challenge of cutting How Do You Measure A Year? so as not to embarrass Ella
46:37 – Introducing Joshua Seftel, director of Stranger at the Gate
48:12 – Joshua explains how he learnt Stranger at the Gate had been nominated for an Oscar
50:19 – Joshua explains what Stranger at the Gate is about
53:13 – Catalyst: How a confrontation with his daughter, Emily, put Mac McKinney on the path to friendship with Muslims
54:55 – Joshua discusses his documentary series The Secret Life of Muslims and how his own background led him to make the series
57:06 – How Mac McKinney went from hatred to friendship
58:49 – What happened when Bibi Bahrami discovered Mac had meant to kill the members of the mosque up in a bomb attack
1:00:27 – Stranger at the Gate as a story that shows ‘the power of connection’
1:02:38 – Bibi Bahrami’s positive influence on others and Joshua’s determination for every American to see the film
1:06:43 – The way in which politics has separated people who would once have been friends
1:07:56 – Bibi Bahrami and her cookies: a way of connecting with others
1:09:15 – What next for Joshua
Resources:
The Martha Mitchell Effect
How Do You Measure A Year?
Stranger at the Gate
MovieMaker Magazine
Innersound Audio
Alamo Pictures
Connect with Anne Alvergue:
Connect with Debra McClutchy:
Connect with Judith Mizrachy:
Connect with Jay Rosenblatt:
Connect with Joshua Seftel:
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Transcript for Factual America Episode 125: Oscar Nominations 2023: Three Tales from the Past and the Heart
Matthew Sherwood 00:00 (01:45)
That was the trailer for the Oscar nominated short documentary, The Martha Mitchell Effect, and this is Factual America. I'm your host, Matthew Sherwood. Each week, I watch a hit documentary, and then talk with the filmmakers and their subjects. This week, we have a special treat for you as we interview the filmmakers behind three of the five nominees for Best Short Documentary at the 2023 Academy Awards, to be held on March 12. The Martha Mitchell Effect tells the story of the woman who brought down the Nixon administration. Joining us are the directors and producers who tell us what it was like to turn this amazing but seemingly forgotten story into an Oscar nominated short documentary. Then we will be joined by Jay Rosenblatt, the award-winning director of How Do You Measure A Year? also nominated for Best Short Documentary at this year's Academy Awards. Jay interviewed his daughter, Ella, every year on her second through eighteenth birthdays, and documented those sessions on film. During the pandemic, he turned that footage into a loving and poignant film that says so much about growing up, the passage of time, and the relationship between a father and a daughter. Last, but certainly not least, is Joshua Seftel, the award-winning director of Stranger at the Gate. This short tells the incredible story of an ex-US Marine who plans a terrorist attack in a mosque in a small American town. His plan takes an unprecedented turn when he comes face-to-face with the people he is trying to kill, forcing him to confront his own actions. This promises to be an excellent episode as we gear up for Oscars night. So, stay tuned. Hi, everyone, welcome to Factual America. Congratulations! And how are things with you all?
Judith Mizrachy 01:41
Doing well.
Beth Levison 01:42
Good.
Anne Alvergue 01:43
Great.
Matthew Sherwood 01:43
Yeah, excellent. Thank you so much. We're - for our listeners and viewers, we're talking about The Martha Mitchell Effect. Nominated for Best Short Doc at this year's Academy Awards, currently streaming on Netflix, so do catch it there. And if people haven't had a chance to check it out yet, maybe we'll start with you, Anne, one of the co-directors; well, how does it feel to be nominated for an Oscar? I mean, what was it - what was it like when you - who got the call?
Anne Alvergue 02:16 (04:07)
So, we were actually all on a Zoom call - or a Zoom video, I should say - watching it live. So, we all heard about it at the same time, although I think a couple of them got some text messages earlier. So, they kind of had more of a hint!
Beth Levison 02:36
By a few seconds.
Matthew Sherwood 02:38
A few seconds.
Anne Alvergue 02:38
By just a few seconds, yeah. Yeah, I was completely surprised. You know, I think we thought there were, you know, we knew we were in contention. But there were some front-runners that we - that at least I expected. And when I didn't see them come up, even though I didn't realize - I should have known it was alphabetical, but anyway, I didn't - and when I didn't see them come up, I thought, Oh, no. Oh, no, we're not - we're not going to be part of that, but then we were. So, that was very exciting. And surprising at the same time. It was kind of a nice mixture.
Matthew Sherwood 03:06
Oh, well. I mean, for those who haven't had a chance, Debra, maybe you can tell us what is The Martha Mitchell Effect all about? Maybe you can give us a synopsis - I'm talking about the film, not the psychological definition.
Debra McClutchy 03:21 (05:13)
Sure. Well, Martha Mitchell was the wife of the Attorney General, John Mitchell, in the Nixon administration. So, the film is really her story about, you know, coming into the administration as someone who was very popular, very much a celebrity. The Nixon administration really enjoyed her sort of vivaciousness and her friendliness with the press, and they really garnered that sort of soft power that she wielded. And then, you know, later on in the administration, things took a drastic turn after California when she was there during the break in, and they contained her, so that she wouldn't get wind of it. She did, anyways. And yeah, and that's the primary basis of the film.
Matthew Sherwood 04:11
Okay. And I think you've - as you put in - as the film shows, or even have him saying it, I believe, Richard Nixon, yeah, in the David Frost interview says there'd be no Watergate without Martha, as he felt. And she was an outspoken woman in a time and era in Washington DC that that wasn't necessarily the done thing. But Judith, why - I mean, as some - I'm - may surprise some, as a geeky 5, 6, 7 year old I was - I knew very well what was going on with Watergate, and at the time, my parents every evening would watch the replay of the hearings and stuff. But why has Martha Mitchell disappeared from that narrative, I would say. Many can name all the different actors to this day: Mitchell, Ehrlichman, Haldeman, but her name doesn't come up as much, usually.
Judith Mizrachy 05:12 (07:02)
Yeah, you know, we think it's because the gaslighting campaign against her really was effective. When we talk to a lot of people now, either they don't know who she is at all, or they have - you know, they kind of remember her as being, you know, just kind of drunk or crazy, and they don't really remember much. At the time, she was incredibly popular and well known; so, she really was, you know, she has been pretty effectively erased and discredited. And, you know, it was a very deliberate campaign against her.
Matthew Sherwood 05:46
And, Beth, why make this film now? What's inspired you to, 50 years on, besides being an anniversary, maybe, with a zero at the end? Why are we talking about Martha Mitchell?
Beth Levison 06:03 (07:53)
Yeah, I mean, I just want to add to Judith's, if I can, a little bit, which is I think it also speaks to the power of popular culture in some ways. I think the gaslighting campaign was absolutely effective, but this is a story that's become defined by All The President's Men. And that's what we think about, when we think about this story in many ways. Certainly why I was drawn to it, because I knew nothing about her, and her presence was so diminished in that story. So, I just wanted to sort of tag team that, that I think the gaslighting was effective, and that also, kind of the whole - the popular culture and the story that it passed down has had an effect on what we recall, or what we remember, and what we don't. We wanted to make this film now, because we felt like it was an absolutely current story, despite it being fifty years old. I mean, this was during the last administration, and it was weekly, the women who spoke truth to power and were gaslighted by that administration, and it was infuriating. And just, it just felt like the time for this film was now; so, there was a period of time where we thought about it being a feature. And we knew it'd take longer to make for many reasons. And then because we felt it was so timely, it was one of the reasons that we really pushed to make a short. And so, unfortunately, the themes of the film are still absolutely relevant and present today. And that's in the popular culture, too. And we really wanted to bring her voice forward to start a new conversation around Watergate, the story that many think that they know, and also around the systemic gaslighting of women who speak truth to power in politics.
Matthew Sherwood 07:59
Yeah, I mean, I think as someone who grew up in the United States, and what I do remember, I probably would have said the same thing if you'd asked me a few weeks ago: Who was Martha Mitchell? Well, John Mitchell's wife, and probably would have - thought would have come into my head that she was a drunk, or she was, you know, whatever she was portrayed to be. And then this isn't - I mean, I hear you what you're saying about the last administration, but this isn't just that administration. We've had many cases of, over the years, different levels through politics. It's always, you know - I mean, maybe, I haven't even thought of asking this, but I alluded to this early on about the psychological, hence, where you get inspiration for the name, but maybe one of you could tell us, I mean, what is the Martha Mitchell effect? I think it's interesting.
Anne Alvergue 08:49 (10:39)
Yeah, yeah. So, it was originally coined by Brendan Mayer, who was a Harvard psychiatrist, in 1988. And it's essentially a process in which a medical professional labels a patient's story or depiction of events as delusional, when, in fact, they turn out to be true. You know. So, that's the definition. I mean, for the purposes of our film, it's also the effect of Martha Mitchell as a figure of her time; you know, she swept through DC as an outlier. And, you know, she had a larger effect on Nixon and his administration than she was initially given credit for.
Matthew Sherwood 09:23
So, how did this project come about? How did you all come together? This is a - I imagine there's a story here as well.
Debra McClutchy 09:30 (11:21)
Yeah, I can take that one. So, Anne and I are longtime friends, and we decided that we wanted to make a film. And we're looking for stories to tell, looking for stories about interesting, powerful, influential women, great stories about women. And as a reaction to the 2016 election, we had heard Martha's story, and got really fascinated by her. Didn't know anything about her, couldn't believe that we didn't know anything about her. So, we started doing some research, and thinking of her as, you know, a potential character, and looking at clips on YouTube, and seeing how telegenic she was, and just what an amazing kind of presence that she had. And she was funny and charismatic. So, we started digging even further to find a documentary that would have been made about her. And, lo and behold, there wasn't one. So, we decided to embark upon it, and did a deep dive into research, going to the Nixon Library, and, you know, going to other archives, Vanderbilt archive, any number of archives, just to uncover the story that actually was there, that just other people hadn't really uncovered in documentary form. So, it began there. And then we brought on Judith and Beth as our producers a little later on. And they really helped us get this film made, and get it over the finish line. And were, you know, super crucial to the whole process of storytelling. So, yeah; so, that's kind of the genesis of it.
Matthew Sherwood 11:07
Okay. And Judith and Beth, I mean, why a short? Because, potentially, there's enough here for a feature. I mean, as I've already said, I couldn't get enough of Martha, and I would've watched more than forty minutes. So, how did that, or whoever wants to answer that, why did you settle on a short form?
Anne Alvergue 11:27
I can take it. Because it feels like - we went back and forth a lot about this. I think originally, you know, Debra and I conceived of it as a short. We wanted to keep it archival, so we knew we'd be limited to the material that we had. And then when we started to, you know, gather and compile, and sort of lay out a chronology, and a really [...] assembly to tell the whole story, and tell the Watergate saga. We thought, well, maybe we could make it into a feature. And we pitched it around, but we just never got a lot of traction. And then we sort of circled back to the short and thought we could really - you know, Martha, at that point was not a familiar name. We weren't sure how much she could carry a feature on, although I certainly am confident that she could have, but at that time, it was a little unclear. And, you know, the archival costs were so prohibitively expensive, you know; so, and we didn't have any money at that point. So, we sort of pivoted to a short. I would say, we pivoted to a, you know, a long short. We sort of compromised at forty minutes.
Matthew Sherwood 12:35
Yeah. I mean, it's technically slightly over forty minutes but that didn't count against you, did it?
Anne Alvergue 12:41
No, it's forty. It's forty.
Beth Levison 12:42
It's forty on the nose.
Matthew Sherwood 12:44
It has to be forty on the nose, okay; so, it's funny what shows - I think that must include - that's - well, no, that's good to know. I mean, that's an interesting point you make, because I have - I know people have told me stories of pitching and things where they've said, you know, people who I won't say who they are, but pretty big names, and get told, well, we still don't think that someone is big enough to carry a feature. I mean, is that - it's an interesting one, isn't it? I mean, it's - what does and doesn't fly on with pitches these days.
Beth Levison 13:18
Well, if I can just add to that. I mean, it wasn't really a consideration: could she carry a feature? She can carry a feature. But I think it was the issue, the - in getting into the weeds - it was an issue of cost. It was an issue of time. And, you know, time is money. And we really wanted to restore Martha's agency to her. And in order to make the film longer, we would have had to bring other elements into the film. There was the possibility that we could have diluted her voice. So, in these forty minutes, we're really able to focus on Martha and her story, and largely through her words and experience. And so, we thought it could be a more powerful experience as well, through a short. And, you know, it was that constant question; like, what's best for the film? What will make the best film? And that's where we landed.
Matthew Sherwood 14:11
Well...
Anne Alvergue 14:11
Yeah...
Matthew Sherwood 14:12
Go ahead.
Anne Alvergue 14:12
Oh, sorry. Yeah. Just to pick up on that, that's a great point. I mean, I think, you know, not only do we want to do an archival film, but we wanted to restore her agency, right, as the sort of hidden figure, and in order to do that, we want to prioritize her voice, and we were limited - even though she was incredibly popular with the press, we were still limited in terms of what she said in interviews, so.
Matthew Sherwood 14:34
Well, and I wouldn't disagree with you... Oh, go ahead, Beth - Debra, sorry.
Debra McClutchy 14:38
We also knew from the beginning, Anne and I when we talked about her story, that we didn't want to do it from, you know, Day One. We weren't interested, really, in doing from, like, this, call it a cradle-to-grave type narrative. You really wanted to focus on this particular time period. And what really happened with her Watergate experience, so that sort of informs the length as well. Although I will say making this long short felt like making a feature at times because it was pretty, pretty intense!
Matthew Sherwood 15:06
Yeah, and I don't want to - I mean, I think it's perfect in many ways by leaving someone like me wanting for more. That's actually the perfect place to leave us, isn't it? I mean, you know, you was talking about that archive. I mean, obviously that's part of the consideration of how you bring her to life. And I think the film does such an amazing job of bringing her back to life. I mean, what were some of the conversations you were having about that? Or are you pretty much limited to just a certain amount of archive, and you had to do the best you could with that?
Debra McClutchy 15:41 (17:32)
Yeah, sure. We were certainly limited by what we could find. You know, there weren't any home movies of Martha, for instance. So, we were really limited by a lot of the news footage that we found of her, but so much of it is so incredible. Her character comes through, and her personality comes through so clearly, through a lot of that. And then we really - we leaned for the Watergate story, and for the Nixon administration, all those incredible Super Eight movies that Ehrlichman and Haldeman filmed, and that stuff just looks amazing. And it's such an amazing record of these young men, documenting their time in the administration. So, that stuff was great and really fun to work with. So, yeah, we did a really deep dive, and I think we found a lot of amazing things. We found an interview of Martha that hadn't been seen since the 70s when it came on, and it was in, you know, the reporter's attic. He unearthed a tape that he didn't even realize had been there, and had uncovered it and got it transferred, and we're able to include it in the film. So, there are some real, like, discoveries and gems that we were able to use.
Matthew Sherwood 16:53
Yeah, and I loved seeing Helen Thomas. I mean, I used to live in Washington, DC. I know which restaurant she used to hang out at. It was one of my favorites, too, my wife, and our favorite. So, when did you, Judith, maybe, or Beth, when did you get an inkling that this one was going to be - I mean, obviously, you knew you had a great subject, things are going well, when did you have an inkling this was, you know, you were even saying at the beginning, you kind of were hoping, you felt like you might have a chance of getting, making the shortlist and being nominated. But when did you know that this was - this one stood a good chance of being nominated?
Judith Mizrachy 17:32 (19:23)
You know, I think it's been a process. We, certainly, you know, from the beginning, from our early meetings, there was so much interest in Martha's story. And I think, yeah, throughout the last, you know, two years, really, there's been great feedback. And it's been interesting to see, like, how many people in general but, you know, women have really, really supported this project. I think so many women can relate to this. You know, obviously, like, there's major gaslighting that happens in like the highest levels of government, but there's also, you know, just women being kind of silenced, whether it's in the workplace or even at home. So, I think just women really got behind this story. And yeah, we just - over the - I mean, it's not really answering your question, but I think we just - it's been a great journey these last two years and then bringing on Net - you know, Netflix coming on board was, like, a fantastic partner. Really, really supporting this story, I think was the beginning.
Matthew Sherwood 18:34
Alright, may I just add - and I shouldn't have the last word, but just to say that, as someone who's - maybe it's my age - I've always kind of struggled with exactly what this term "gaslighting" really means. It's kind of come to the fore in the last few years. I feel like watching this film is the very definition - it helps. I don't think I've ever had a better idea of what we're talking about when people use the term properly. I think it's probably been overused of late, but absolutely amazing. I really enjoyed it. And, I mean, what's next for you all? You all going to the Oscars? So, you're gonna - you all showing up? We gonna see you on the red carpet and all that?
Anne Alvergue 19:18
Hopefully!
Beth Levison 19:18
That's the plan!
Anne Alvergue 19:18
We've been told to get there early!
Matthew Sherwood 19:29
You're gonna be waiting at the velvet rope, seeing whether they let you in or not?
Anne Alvergue 19:31
That's right.
Matthew Sherwood 19:32
Okay.
Anne Alvergue 19:32
We're gonna be the first one there!
Matthew Sherwood 19:34
Hey, well, this - it's a very short, relatively short, interview. I don't think we're doing the film justice, but at the same time, it is a short. I don't want the interview to be longer than the film. And I think - I just thank you all again. I thought this is one of these lovely ones, as you say, someone who's kind of - people for whatever reason, for all the wrong reasons, have forgotten about this figure, and she's such an incredible figure, and an important figure, and certainly in American history; so, thank you all. And if you make another one of these, we'd love to have you on again. And so, good luck. And, yes, thanks. Thanks again for coming on. And just to say, I just want to give a big thanks to the filmmakers of the Marsha Mitchell - the Martha, not Marsha, my goodness - The Martha Mitchell Effect, nominated in the Best Short Doc category. Streaming on Netflix. Next, we'll talk with Jay Rosenblatt, award-winning filmmaker, and two-time Oscar nominee, about his film, How Do You Measure A Year? Here’s a short trailer.
Matthew Sherwood 23:05 (23:05)
Jay Rosenblatt, welcome to Factual America. How are things with you?
Jay Rosenblatt 20:43
Very good, thank you. Thanks for having me.
Matthew Sherwood 20:46
Well, it's great to have you on, and have you on again. The film this time is How Do You Measure A Year? Nominated for Best Short Doc at this year's Academy Awards. So, I mean, I asked you last time, how does it feel to be nominated for an Oscar? How does it feel to be nominated for a second time? Did you have any inkling that this would happen?
Jay Rosenblatt 21:10
Did I have an inkling? I had a hope. I knew that people were very moved by the film. So, I had gotten many comments from Academy members, just letting me know how much it worked for them. And so, you know, it raised my hopes. So, I wouldn't say it was a complete surprise. But it's great. I'm really happy about it.
Matthew Sherwood 21:41
And it's - I mean, we'll talk more about what the film is about shortly. But is this one even more special than the last one, given it does involve your daughter?
Jay Rosenblatt 21:51 (24:18)
Yeah, it's - you know, it's very hard to compare the two films. The last one was a labor of love, too. Took four years, it was very personal story. And, you know, I collaborated with a lot of different people, artists, composers, and stuff like that. This one was a much more simple and intimate film to make. And, you know, it goes without saying, I love the subject of this film so much. So, this one was probably more enjoyable...
Matthew Sherwood 22:29
Yeah.
Jay Rosenblatt 22:29
... to edit. Because I could just watch a lot of footage of her and not get tired.
Matthew Sherwood 22:39
So, that everyone - so we can catch up our listeners and viewers, maybe you can tell us - give us a synopsis of How Do You Measure A Year? What is it all about, so we know what - so they know what we're talking about.
Jay Rosenblatt 22:53 (25:19)
Yeah, sure. Well, this is a, I would say, a longitudinal film, where I started filming my daughter on her birthday when she was two. And every year, we filmed her, I filmed her in the same spot, asking pretty much the same questions, adding a couple here and there as the years went on. And I did that for 17 years, until she turned 18. So, it's a, you know, it's about watching time right in front of you, being someone just go from toddler to young woman, and also seeing how our relationship evolves.
Matthew Sherwood 23:40 (26:06)
And so, is it right, because I think it says at the beginning, you didn't even look at these interviews for 17 years, was it? I mean, why not? Did you just store them away? And were you thinking in the back of your mind that there was a film here? What was up with that?
Jay Rosenblatt 23:56
Well, I always thought in the back of my mind, there was a film. I didn't know for sure. I should make it clear: I didn't see the first year for seventeen years. The last year, I didn't see for, like, two or three years. So...
Matthew Sherwood 24:12
Right.
Jay Rosenblatt 24:12
... but I never - I never looked at the footage. And part of it was a superstition. I didn't know if it came out. And I didn't want to know because if it didn't come out, I would have been really upset, and then I don't know if I would keep doing it because I would have missed a year or two. And the reason I didn't know if it came out was I was using an old camera. I purposely wanted to stick with the same camera for all those years even though technology had changed because I wanted the look to be the same. But as I was filming - I should say the first few years a friend of mine was filming - but then, from I would say about six or seven on, I did the filming alone. And it's not my strength, cinematography. The camera seemed to be on the blink; like, sometimes the sound would go out; I had the headphones on, and I wouldn't hear something and I'd go, Oh, no, the cameras breaking. So, it was just, like, faith. I just kept using it. And at age eighteen, I decided - I had a new camera a few years before, but I didn't switch over. But at age eighteen, I decided to film with two cameras, just to have the option to go to the new camera. And, thank God; when I looked at the footage Covid had hit, I had some extra time on my hands. I looked at the footage, and it came out, and for the most part, it looked decent. A couple of years the color was off. But I was able to fix that in the color correction, and the sound was there for the most part. So, so, yeah, I mean, I was very relieved. But I still didn't know if I had a film. I had to watch it all...
Matthew Sherwood 25:52
Right.
Jay Rosenblatt 25:52
And then it brought back so many memories. But as I'm watching it, I felt like each year, there's a few little gems. And I felt like I could turn this into a film.
Matthew Sherwood 26:04
And what sparked you to actually go ahead and finally look at them, and see if you had...
Jay Rosenblatt 26:11 (28:37)
You know, I knew I'd get to it at some point. But it was one of those things really on the backburner. And I had just finished When We Were Bullies. And I felt - I kind of felt the void in my life creatively. And I said, Well, maybe I should work on the birthday film, or at least look at it...
Matthew Sherwood 26:28
Yeah.
Jay Rosenblatt 26:29
So, I - that's - and Covid hit, and I have a regular full-time day job, but I still have more time on my hands, and that seemed like a good moment to do it.
Matthew Sherwood 26:42
Well, thank goodness you did. I mean, you - so, I'm just thinking about what you - I mean, there's so many things about this film, especially as I myself as a father of an eighteen year old girl. I can only - I'm not saying you have to be a father of an eighteen year old girl to appreciate this film, in fact I'm certainly not saying that, but it does give me a little certain perspective, I think but - but let me get back to the point, I mean - you asked the same questions every year, is that right? And way back when, how did you choose those questions?
Jay Rosenblatt 27:18 (29:44)
Yeah, like I said earlier, I did add a few questions as she got older, but I didn't remove any questions. So, there was a through line. You know, I, at first, since I'm talking to a two year old, a three year old, a four year old, I had to do some questions that I felt like she could answer, and some that would, maybe, challenge her a little bit. So, one of the challenging questions was I asked her what does power mean? And that got some interesting responses through the years!
Matthew Sherwood 27:55
Yeah.
Jay Rosenblatt 27:57
But then there were things like, what was your favorite thing this year? What do you like to do the most? I'd ask her some simple questions like, what's your favorite food and/or movie? And then, you know, as time went on, I asked, and I always also asked about our relationship. I asked her how we were doing together, and - just to check in with her. So, those were pretty consistent. I think, you know, when she was a bit older, I asked her, like, what would she like to say to her older self; like, her 25 year old self? And even when I did ask that it was a hard concept for her. So, I'm glad I didn't ask that when she was two or three, because she would, it would go nowhere. And it would be, maybe, wouldn't be fair, you know, to put her in that situation. But I did want there to be a consistency. And also, when I was editing, I was clear that I wasn't going to give the answer to every question every year, because that would be very boring and redundant. So, you know, I picked and chose what I felt would exemplify in some ways that particular day of that year.
Matthew Sherwood 29:10
Okay. I actually want to ask you some more questions about your questions, but let me just give our listeners and viewers a quick, quick early break here. We'll be right back with award-winning and two-time Oscar nominated director Jay Rosenblatt. How Do You Measure A Year? Nominated in the Best Short Doc category.
Factual America Midroll 29:32
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Matthew Sherwood 29:51 (32:56 from ‘Why the power question...’)
We're back with the award-winning and two-time Oscar nominated director, Jay Rosenblatt. How Do You Measure A Year? is the film and it's nominated in the Best Short Doc category in this year's Oscars. We were talking about these questions you were asking your daughter every year on her birthday. And, I mean, they are - they're difficult ones, even for an adult, let alone two to three year olds, some of them, and you could be excused if you didn't, if you're a bit unknowing and not a parent, maybe thinking it comes across sometimes as a form of torture at some of these questions. But how did you come - why the power question? Why was that one that you wanted to - what were you trying to get with - get to with that?
Jay Rosenblatt 30:39
Yeah, I should preface it with, like - and I say this in the film, I think it was like, maybe 17 or 18, where I say, I'm not so sure I loved all the questions I asked. So, I was a little unsure of it myself. I mean, as time went on, I thought, Oh, I wish I asked her about this and that. I mean, I'm happy with the way it turned out, and - but the power question, I think, because she was a girl, I thought that would be an interesting question to ask. I wanted her to feel empowered, growing up. And I thought if - if we talked about power, maybe that would, you know, boost her confidence and understanding of that kind of dynamic. And I think, in some ways, this came up in another interview I was doing, and I really agree with it, but it was really what came out of that was really love. It was really about love. I mean power, in a sense, you could say is really love in this film. I mean, she has some funny responses to that question. And then as she gets older, it becomes very interesting, because she talks about - I think she comes to this place where the power of being oneself, you know, that takes a lot of power, to really be yourself. And, you know, I think that's really insightful.
Matthew Sherwood 32:19
Yeah, yeah, I think...
Jay Rosenblatt 32:21 (34:47)
Yeah. The other questions, you know, I just wanted to see where they went. I mean, she - in some ways, the questions aren't as important as just seeing her demeanor. Her changing physically, emotionally, psychologically; how she relates, you know; it's more about that, and the questions are just like a springboard, to be honest.
Matthew Sherwood 32:48
I completely agree, and that's what struck me the most and, okay, I'll play my dad's hat with this one, but, you know, it was just, you know, it - for me, it brought a lot of memories back. I mean, there's this part of me - I was even talking to my wife. I said, I wish I had done something like this. She goes, Oh, Mary would have never allowed you to do this! It would just never have happened But, yeah, and you can just see those - you go from - Okay, things 2, 3, 4 and then there's, like, you see these big leaps in development from one year to the next. And then there's the, you know, not to give away the film, people should go see it but, you know, the rolling of the eyes in certain different years and the sort of attitude, you know - I won't say, but, you know, even when she was fourteen, and the attitude she had when she was fourteen...
Jay Rosenblatt 33:39
Yeah, that was a tough year.
Matthew Sherwood 33:43
Yeah, yeah, obviously, it was, and you lived through that and, you know, very, you know, that really - it's a loaded question, how's the relationship? And, you know, there's a couple years there where she's talking about - you two are fighting, right, you know, and that's - unfortunately it's sort of what happens with parents, and especially girls as pre-teens, but then - and then teens, and children in general. I mean, it's - but, yeah, there's just the - it is amazing. It's like, you know, there have been these longitudinal films. There's been Seven and Up, and these kinds of things, but this is just this kind of - it's almost like that style of, you know, the filmmaking where they show the flowers slowly grow, you know...
Jay Rosenblatt 34:26
Time lapse.
Matthew Sherwood 34:26
Time lapse, yeah. I was completely - I went brain dead on that one, but like, it's time lapse photography there, you know, and you just see this, and then the poignant answers absolutely: so amazing. I mean, your films explore - you know, I think you - I don't know if it's a quote from you, but explore emotional and, you know, our emotional and psychological core, I think is what it says on IMDb. Is this your most personal film, and was it your own journey of exploration in going through - doing this, making this film, and doing the edits?
Jay Rosenblatt 34:44 (37:31)
Yeah, you know, I think it was. I have made four films with Ella up until she was five. And that might explain why she was kind of agreeing and comfortable doing this because we had a little bit of a history of making films together. And it was, it was a special thing we did together. Not always pleasant, but we, for the most part, enjoyed the process. And a couple of those films went on to show on HBO. So, she had a little bit of a sense of what she was getting into. You know, like when your wife said that your daughter Mary wouldn't agree to that, I think Ella was primed for this a little bit. And the fact that I'm in it, and she's in it and agreed to be in it, and I would say yes, it is my most personal film on a certain level, for sure. Although, I have made personal films that deal with traumas in my life, and so, you know, there's definitely other films that are very personal, but this one is quite personal. And I, you know, I'm glad that it affected you that way. I found that a lot of people have ended up watching it with their families or with their kids. And I didn't plan on that, or think about that. And I'm really - it's very satisfying to me, because I think it does show that you can get through certain stages, it does - and I think people can, maybe, see themselves or their relationships in the film. And I always like that with all of my films. I kind of strive for people to enter them with their own life memories. And hopefully, it'll have some effect on them.
Matthew Sherwood 35:34
Well, I tell you - I mean, I actually haven't done it, yet, but my first reaction was, I should probably ask you for permission, but - for the link - to share the link, but was to share the link with her, and to say, would you, you know, I think you'd love - I think you would - you should watch this, and not because I'm trying to be a dad and make a point or anything. I just think it's just worth watching on its own. And it's - just curious to see what she would - you know, what her reaction would be to it, you know - I mean, what is Ella's - I mean, what does Ella think about the film?
Jay Rosenblatt 37:41 (40:07)
Well, you know, I showed it to her when I was editing it. I showed her the first rough cut and a couple of cuts after that, just to get her approval, consent. And, you know, she was a little embarrassed by a couple of the scenes. But she talked it over with some of her friends, and she came to the conclusion that it was all okay. And she actually came to - I had only really one screening, so far, in a theatre in the Bay Area, and she came. She was in from college. It was around Thanksgiving. And she actually came to the screening. And she, at some point, she came up on stage with me to answer some of the questions. And I was really impressed because she's very reserved and shy now. And I didn't foist that on her. It was her choice.
Matthew Sherwood 38:39
Yeah.
Jay Rosenblatt 38:40
But she was great onstage, and that made me feel like this is, maybe this is a good experience for her. I hope it stays that way. She's obviously thrilled with the Oscar!
Matthew Sherwood 38:52
Well, yeah.
Jay Rosenblatt 38:53
She's gonna be going with me!
Matthew Sherwood 38:55
Excellent.
Jay Rosenblatt 38:56
Yeah. I think it's all good.
Matthew Sherwood 38:59 (41:25)
And then - I mean, and being, you know, so what is it like - one last, sort of last, question on this, but as being a father filming - I mean, you said you had the experience when she was younger, but in doing this, I mean, was it difficult to make in terms of the edit: what to cut, and what to include, and what do you - do ever sense well, maybe I won't include that because she, you know, in terms of, you know, not wanting to embarrass her, you know, and these sorts of things.
Jay Rosenblatt 39:29
Yeah, I mean, I was sensitive to that, for sure. I wouldn't - yeah, if she said, like, I can't, it won't work if you leave that in. I would have taken it out. But it was not that hard to edit because there was a, you know, each year I shot one tape, which lasted I think 45 minutes. So, there was 70, you know, like 15 hours...
Matthew Sherwood 39:59
Yeah.
Jay Rosenblatt 40:00
... of footage, not onerous.
Matthew Sherwood 40:03
Yeah.
Jay Rosenblatt 40:04
It was pretty clear what the highlights were. I just had to really figure out how to keep the momentum going. How to cut in and out of years, things like that. She sings a lot in the film, which, you know, which songs do I include? Which ones have resonance with themes that are emerging? It kind of - yeah, it was - and it was, like we said, I said earlier, it was so pleasurable, that it went quickly, unlike some films that are, like, so painful, to edit, and to get through, and just take so long. This was, this was a good experience. I really enjoyed it. So, no, I would say it wasn't a hard film to edit. There was - because it was so enjoyable.
Matthew Sherwood 40:56
Well, I think that comes through. I mean, I thoroughly enjoyed your - last year's film, which was obviously a personal film as well. But, you know, I think, as you mentioned earlier, about the love, I think that comes through, I think that comes through loud and clear. And I think it's very poignant. It's very touching. I think it's one of those I - I've only watched it once, but I think it's one of those where I do want to go back and watch it again, a second or third time, because I think there's something - there's so much there in a very short period of time. So, I guess one last question, because you probably don't want to make the interview longer than the film, but the...
Jay Rosenblatt 41:35
[...] making sure I'm aware of that!
Matthew Sherwood 41:41
But, I mean, is there a chance, I don't think it's out yet, it's not been more widely distributed, is that something that's still in the works? I'm just thinking in terms of those listening to this podcast who'd like to check it out.
Jay Rosenblatt 41:57
Yeah, hopefully that'll change. But, at this point, it's the only short doc that's not, doesn't have a distributor.
Matthew Sherwood 42:07
I was gonna ask you about that. What's the challenge?
Jay Rosenblatt 42:10
It's very challenging. You know, I have a sales agent, and hopefully, that will change soon. It will be available on this Shorts - International TV puts out all the Oscar shorts theatrically starting on the 17th of February. So, it will be in that program in like 2 to 300 cities around the country.
Matthew Sherwood 42:34
Okay.
Jay Rosenblatt 42:34
So, I'm in Europe. So, there will be an opportunity to see all the films together. And it's a good batch of films. So, I think people will enjoy it.
Matthew Sherwood 42:44
Yeah, no, definitely. Definitely check that out.
Jay Rosenblatt 42:46
I love that you want to see it a second time, because to me that's a real compliment.
Matthew Sherwood 42:53
Well, it's - well, I'm glad you take it that way, and it's certainly meant that way because I do - I've - I don't know, I found it extremely poignant, and if nothing else just kind of brought back a lot of my own personal memories. So, you know, I do - if those listening - if you can get to that short docs theatrical release, do, and then be on the lookout for this to be released and streamed more widely. So, Jay, thanks again, for coming on. We really enjoyed it. Thanks for - keep making these great short docs that you make, and best of luck at the Oscars. And, you know, who knows, maybe we'll have you again next year, the way things are going.
Jay Rosenblatt 43:41
I seriously doubt that. I don't have a film. But I appreciate the sentiment. I would love to make this a yearly thing now!
Matthew Sherwood 43:51
Well, let's see what we can do about that, at least after maybe a year's gap. So, big thanks to Jay Rosenblatt. The film, How Do You Measure A Year? nominated for Best Short Doc at this year's Academy Awards. Do check it out wherever you can find it. And thanks again. Jay. Take care.
Jay Rosenblatt 44:07
Thank you, Matthew.
Matthew Sherwood 44:11 (46:37)
For our final interview, we catch up with Joshua Seftel, award-winning filmmaker of Stranger at the Gate. Here’s a short trailer.
Matthew Sherwood 48:06
Joshua Seftel, welcome to Factual America. How are things with you?
Joshua Seftel 44:23
Doing well. Thanks for having me.
Matthew Sherwood 44:25 (48:12)
Yeah, thanks for coming on. The film we're talking about is Stranger at the Gate. Nominated for Best Short Doc at this year's Academy Awards. So, congratulations on your Oscar nomination. What was it like to receive the call? How did you find out?
Joshua Seftel 44:41
Well, we did a watch party, which I was very opposed to...
Matthew Sherwood 44:46
Yeah.
Joshua Seftel 44:47
... because I really did not want to sort of film a moment that might be very, potentially, very disappointing. But we did it, anyway. There were six of us. And we were all on camera and watching on Zoom together, and they, you know, they announced the first name, and it wasn't us, and we all kind of like crouched down a little. Second one, third one, fourth one. We weren't - still didn't name us. And we - at this point we're like, crouched way down, some people are covering their faces. We've all become very small in the frame...
Matthew Sherwood 45:21
Right.
Joshua Seftel 45:22
... and we just thought, Well, we tried, you know, we didn't make it this year. And then the fifth one was us. And we all just popped up. And it was a very exciting moment. And we, you know, the thing that's cool for me about it is that we made this film, because we wanted people to see it, we wanted - it has a message that's very important to us. And the nomination just means that a lot more people are going to see it. And that was what delighted us the most. We actually have a video of that pop-up moment, if you want it; it's pretty amusing.
Matthew Sherwood 46:06
Do you have it - is it, like, on YouTube, now? Or is it...
Joshua Seftel 46:11
It's on social media. I can get it for you, though.
Matthew Sherwood 46:13
Okay. We can put a link to it in the show notes....
Joshua Seftel 46:17
Yeah.
Matthew Sherwood 46:18
... why don't we do that? Well, before we - why don't you go ahead and tell our, you know, for our audience, if they haven't had a chance to see this, what is Stranger at the Gate all about? Maybe you can give us a brief synopsis.
Joshua Seftel 46:31 (50:19)
Sure. It's about a US Marine, who comes back from 25 years of service abroad, in war zones all over the world, and when he comes back, he's filled with hatred toward Muslims. And he's so angry, and so mixed up, that he decides he's going to blow up the mosque in his local town, which is in Muncie, Indiana. So, he goes over to the mosque, to do a little recon; he's already built the bomb. And when he arrives at the mosque, he's greeted by the congregants there. And they include a couple of Afghan refugees, an African-American convert, and some other folks who welcome him into the mosque. And they actually treat him with kindness. And they're very, you know, compassionate and welcoming. And at that point, the story and the film take a really interesting turn. And things sort of go in a different direction.
Matthew Sherwood 47:43
I think you...
Joshua Seftel 47:43
I don't know how much you want me to tell about...
Matthew Sherwood 47:44
Yeah, well, you know what, maybe we'll just put the little spoiler alert out right now, just to tell people that - so, first of all, I didn't even say, I think this is - this film - well, I had a screener, but I didn't even really need it, right, because you can just find it on YouTube, I think.
Joshua Seftel 47:59
That's right.
Matthew Sherwood 48:00
So, it's publicly available. You don't need to stream, you don't need to subscribe to one of those famous streamers that we often talk about on this show. So, go watch it. It's - because, yes, I wasn't sure even how to approach this, either. Because it's not - you know, it's - I guess, maybe, when you're thinking about this, the filming of this, I mean, there's a purpose to this. It's not just to have a surprise ending or anything. You are showing something - a trend, something that's happened, that's totally unexpected. And I think his name is Mac McKinney; even his daughter says it's a story that no one - when she starts to tell it, no one believes. So, if you haven't had a chance, go check it out. And before and maybe, you know, before we even go further than that, maybe just to say that, as you said, he wants to blow up the Islamic center. And you said he was to do recon, but, you know, he could have - was - I mean, one thing - I don't know if the film exactly mentions, but why did he do that first because he could have - he did more than recon. He just kind of - he was lurk - but he did actually go in, and he actually did meet people in there. I mean, that was a fortuitous decision on his part, and certainly on how people reacted to him. Because he could have just said, Look, I hate these people. I'm gonna blow them up.
Joshua Seftel 49:26 (53:13)
Yeah, yeah. So, what happened was, he had an eight year old daughter, and they were very close. And her name is Emily. And, one day, she came home from school, and she told him that she had a Muslim friend, you know, another little eight year old, little boy. And when he heard about that, when Mac heard about it, he freaked out. He like flipped out on her; started yelling, they had this big fight. And he actually went to his room and started weeping because he was so upset that, you know, these Muslim people were getting close to his daughter. And, you know, his daughter was like, What is wrong with you? You know, she's eight years old, and she's looking at it - looking him in the eye, and just, like, saying, like, Are you crazy? Like, what's wrong with you? And that got through to him. And he had this moment where he said to himself, I need to get a little more information. I need to gather some more data, before I do this, because I need to prove that I'm right. I need to prove all these other people, that they're wrong, and I'm right. So, that's why he went to the mosque that day to do recon, was actually because his eight year old daughter kind of got him to think about it for a second, and he started to question himself just a tiny bit. So, like that interaction, created this little crack in his armor, and it sent him on this journey to actually meet the people that he was planning to murder.
Matthew Sherwood 51:00
And how did you come across this incredible story? Is this coming out of your Secret Life of Muslims project?
Joshua Seftel 51:08 (54:55)
Yes. Yeah, yeah. So I, for the last eight years, I've been doing a series, or a set of short documentaries, called The Secret Life of Muslims. They're all on YouTube. And we - the - you know, that series came about because I grew up in upstate New York, and I was, you know, a Jewish kid, there weren't that many Jewish kids, and I got treated badly. You know, I was made fun of. Kids called me 'Jew kike', 'Jewish Josh', threw pennies at me to, you know, show me that, oh, Jews are cheap, pick up the pennies, you know, that sort of thing.
Matthew Sherwood 51:47
Yeah.
Joshua Seftel 51:48
And someone threw a rock through the front window of our home, and just things like that, that, you know, as a little boy, they stay with you. And after 9/11, at that point, I was a working filmmaker, and I saw, you know, my Muslim friends facing hate. And it was very familiar to me. And at that point, I thought, Okay, maybe there's something I can do as a filmmaker, to tell stories that might counter this kind of hate. And that was when we started doing this series, Secret Life of Muslims. So, we came across this story in our research in a newspaper article, and it was, you know, I think it was USA Today, university edition, and, you know - which is pretty obscure - and someone on my team, Anna Rowe, she found the article, and we were like, Oh, my God, this story is insane, you know. US Marine goes to a mosque, and he's going to blow it up, and then - should I spoil it, yet? When do we spoil it? Are we waiting...?
Matthew Sherwood 52:53
We are talking about a man who is completely transformed in a very short period of time. In terms of Mac McKinney, this marine who is going to blow up an Islamic center in Muncie, Indiana. Maybe you can tell us a little - had you ever come across any - another situation quite like this? I mean, you're a experienced filmmaker, but, I mean, it's just remarkable.
Joshua Seftel 53:18 (57:06)
No, I mean, this is one of those once in a lifetime stories you come across; you know, it's - the guy is, you know, wanted to commit mass murder. He wanted to erase Muslims from, you know, from where he was; was going to try to kill 200 people with a bomb at the local mosque. And when he goes there to check it out, you know, the first thing that happens is the people there who are in the film, they greet him with kindness, and they welcome him in, and they, you know, gave him a Koran. And one of them, Saber Bahrami, who's one of the founders of the mosque, gets down on his knees, and hugs Mac's legs, and welcomes him in, you know, and Mac is like, What is going on? This is not what was supposed to happen. I thought they were gonna be strange and mean and maybe even threaten me, and instead they're being kind, and he was confused, but it was enough that he actually came back the next day. Mac came back the next day to the mosque, and he started hanging out there, and asking them questions, and wondering about Islam, and trying to learn. And over the course of time, they started inviting him over for, you know, for meals and hanging out with him. And you know, he became part of the community. And after eight weeks, he decided that he wanted to join the community officially, and he actually converted to Islam and joined the community. And then, after that, they found out that he had intended to murder them, and so...
Matthew Sherwood 54:59
That happened after; so they ...
Joshua Seftel 55:01 (58:49)
That happened after. So, this guy is a member of their mosque, and then they hear rumors, like, Oh, you know, Mac was planning to murder you guys. He had a bomb. And so, Bibi Bahrami, who's one of the heroes of this story, she's also - she's one of the co-founders of the mosque, and she and Saber Bahrami, her husband, founded the mosque together. They invited him over for dinner, to confront him, you know, and so, they knew he - they heard he tried - was trying to kill them. So, they invited him over for dinner, made a delicious meal for him, they all sat down together. And when he was done eating, Bibi just looked him in the eye, and said, Is it true that you were planning to murder us? And Mac admitted that it was true. And he said to them, Look, if I had known better, if I had known you, I wouldn't have ever thought of doing this. I just didn't know. And he learned from their kindness, and from getting to know them as people, that his ideas about this group, about Muslims, was just wrong. And they transformed him into a different kind of person. And ultimately, he ended up - not only did they forgive him, and allow him to remain in the community, but they - but he became president of the mosque for a while.
Matthew Sherwood 56:34
That was in one of the titles towards the - at the end of the film. I was just - it's just absolutely amazing.
Joshua Seftel 56:39 (1:00:27)
But it's just, you know, to me, what I love about this story is, you know, it's a story we need right now. You know, we're so divided, we don't talk to each other anymore. Like, you find out that someone you know, voted for the presidential candidate you didn't vote for, you might stop talking with them, you know; like that stuff is happening now, where we're not really connecting with each other anymore, if we think we're different from others. And that's really a sad thing for humanity. And I think what this film shows, is it shows the power of connection; the power of being open, and reaching out to people who are different than us, and giving them a chance, and trying to find that shared humanity that we have with each other, just trying to find it, because it's always there, you know, and the fact that, you know, Bibi and Saber Bahrami, who founded the mosque, can to this day be friends with Richard McKinney, the guy who wanted to murder them, and blow up their mosque. The fact that they're friends today shows me that anything is possible; that we can build impossible bridges between each other. And it gives me hope about the future of our world. So, that's what I love about this story.
Matthew Sherwood 58:00
Well, I think it really is as simple as it just comes down to being and showing love, right; you know, having, you know, and a sense of community, and these sorts of things, because they could have - I mean, this guy is a pretty hulking, formidable character that we're talking about. They could have been very scared off, but they just immediately welcomed him into their lives. And, I mean, it does seem your film, and I think this's what you were getting to at the beginning, when we first started chatting, this does seem to be affecting a lot of people, based on the YouTube comments I'm seeing, at least. Is that what you're - is that the experience you have already with this film?
Joshua Seftel 58:47
I mean, we've had seventy plus screenings of the film...
Matthew Sherwood 58:50
Yeah.
Joshua Seftel 58:50 (1:02:38)
... and, you know, usually we have Bibi in the audience and on a panel; you know, she's the hero of the film, and she's the one who welcomed Mac into the mosque, and welcomed him into her home. And, you know, when the film is over, and people come up to see Bibi, they, you know, they - some people fall into her arms, and they just, you know, they're weeping, because she - and they're tears of joy, you know, because she gives people hope, and she shows them a way to be in the world that is about grace. You know, like, I was at a screening recently where a woman fell into her arms and was crying, and she said, she was Ukrainian, and she said, Bibi, she said, I'm crying because I have hate in my heart right now. You know, I have colleagues - she was a doctor - and she said, I have colleagues here who are Russian. And I know I should be friends with them. But I'm so angry right now that I hate them, and I don't want to live this way. And she said, What can I do? Can you help me? You know, and it's like, the way that Bibi approaches the world there's - it's inspiring, and people are looking for that. People are - people want to figure out how we can co-exist. And I think this film gives a bit of a blueprint for that. You know, one of the things that really struck me when we finished the film, we actually had a screening of it at the mosque where we, you know, where the story took place. And we showed the film in the basement of the mosque, and about eighty people showed up. And, you know, I didn't know what they were gonna think, but I wanted to share it with them first. And when the film was over, and the lights came up, one guy in the back of the room raised his hand, and he said, I just want to say one thing. I believe that every American needs to see this film. And in that moment, I thought two things. One, I was relieved. You know, I thought, Okay, he liked it. We achieved our goals. And the other thing I thought was, Wow, that's a burden and an obligation that I'm willing to take on. And, you know, that's our goal now is like, how do we make sure that every American sees this film, and we're - that's our - that's what we're working on. And that's why the Oscar nomination is so exciting, because, you know, it gives us a chance to reach a big audience. And, I think, to - I think, to possibly change hearts and minds. I know - I see that happening at the screenings. You know, I see people after the film, feeling different and feeling optimistic and feeling like, they want to approach their lives differently and be more open. And, you know, it's - the call to action in this film is really something everyone can do. It's be kind to your neighbor, welcome the stranger, you know, open your heart to people, you might find some common shared humanity with them. And if everyone acted that way, or more people acted that way, if they acted like Bibi Bahrami did in our film, I know the world will be a better place. And it's something all of us can do. So, that inspires me. And at a moment, like we are in right now, it just feels - it feels right. You know, it feels like what people are looking for, and that's exciting.
Matthew Sherwood 1:02:34 (1:06:43)
To the point that what's coming in my head is probably you don't want to hear this, but, I think you need a whole franchise of these. You need to find these stories where people, like, you know, not that you're gonna be able to find the exact kind of - this is an incredible story on its own, but I agree. It is something that even for those who aren't even feel that they're on one side or the other. I know a lot of people who are just very depressed about the whole direction of the world and the US specifically, sometimes, and this, you know - I mean, I've got friends who say they can't, we've got mutual friends, but we can't, they can't invite them over for dinner parties because they voted for different people, you know, and...
Joshua Seftel 1:03:17
And that's new. It didn't used to be that way, right. It was - I mean, ten years ago - I mean, I used to have Republican friends. Like, I don't have as many anymore. And, like, none of my friends do. It's just like, we're not...
Matthew Sherwood 1:03:31
Well, I'm based here - yeah, I'm based here in the UK, and I've got someone came up - some younger guys came up to me, Yeah, I hear that in the old days, like, people who were in the same towns, people who were Republicans and Democrats, used to come over to each other's houses. And I'm like, Yeah, we didn't know - I mean, we didn't know whose party anyone belonged to; you just, we all were just part of one neighborhood. And, yeah; no, it is crazy that it's gotten to this point, so thank you for making this film. I think it's a lovely film. I think it's got a lovely message. And I'm sure it's one that - I'm glad to hear that it's resonating. Let's put it that way.
Joshua Seftel 1:04:09 (1:07:56)
Yeah. I mean, one other thing I want to say is that at all of our screenings when Bibi is there, she - I've never seen this before. I've made a lot of films, and I've done a lot of screenings, but she actually shows up with a suitcase, and she opens it up and takes out a giant Tupperware container filled with home baked cookies, and she passes them out to the audience. And I've never seen that before. It's beautiful, but it encapsulates her spirit, and in a way, the message of the film, which is, like, let's connect with each other, let's find a way to - you know, we don't know each other, but let's get to know each other, and if it means, like, sharing cookies together or coming over for dinner, what better way to get to know someone that you don't know; you know, it's - and that's the spirit of the film. And it's what she did with this, you know, this would-be domestic terrorist. She invited him over for dinner, and that changed his mind; it changed his - the direction, and made for a beautiful outcome. And there's a power in that. There's a power in connecting, and that's what the film is really about.
Matthew Sherwood 1:05:22
Okay. And what's next for you after this?
Joshua Seftel 1:05:27 (1:09:15)
Well, we have a few more weeks of, you know, doing screenings, and our executive producer Malala is leading a lot of these screenings, she'll be at them, and we're very excited about that. In fact, we just did a screening in London, with Malala, last week. And so, she's an amazing champion for the film. And I feel like she's, like, the living embodiment of the message of our film. So, it's very exciting to have her be a part of our team. After this, you know, one of the things we're doing, you mentioned, like, maybe we need a lot of films with this kind of message, we are working on a new one, which is about a 9/11 hate crime victim, a guy who was shot in the face, survived, and his story of transformation, and his activism now; and so, that's something we're working on, right now. And it's really part of this same suite of films about where we're telling stories where people stand up to hate, and try to think about ways to transform others.
Matthew Sherwood 1:06:34
Okay. Well, I wish you well, keep making such wonderful films and inspirational films. I hope everyone is inspired by this. Just to remind our listeners, we've been talking with Joshua Seftel, the award-winning director and producer of Stranger at the Gate, nominated in the Best Short Doc category, and if you hadn't already, despite many Armenian treaties, please go check it out on YouTube, and you too, will be inspired. Joshua, thank you so much. It's been great to have you on.
Joshua Seftel 1:07:06
Thank you so much, Matthew.
Matthew Sherwood 1:07:07
Yeah, take care. I also would like to thank those who help make this podcast possible. A big shout out to Sam and Joe at Innersound Audio in York, England. Big thanks to Amy Ord, our podcast manager at Alamo Pictures, who ensures we continue getting great guests onto the show, and that everything otherwise runs smoothly. Finally, a big thanks to our listeners. Many of you have been with us for four incredible seasons. Please keep sending us feedback and episode ideas, whether it is on YouTube, social media, or directly by email. Please also remember to like us and share us with your friends and family, wherever you happen to listen or watch podcasts. This is Factual America, signing off.
Factual America Outro 1:07:52
You've been listening to Factual America. This podcast is produced by Alamo Pictures, specializing in documentaries, television, and shorts about the USA for international audiences. Head on down to the show notes for more information about today's episode, our guests, and the team behind the podcast. Subscribe to our mailing list or follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter @alamopictures. Be the first to hear about new productions, festivals showing our films, and to connect with our team. Our homepage is alamopictures.co.uk